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Land Raider Prometheus
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:00 am 
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Some dissagreement around this. Centering around different vehicles in different lists and the effect of a command and control tank.

Central stats I think are universal

Type Armoured Vehicle
Speed 25cm
Armour 4+
Close Combat 6+
Firefight 4+ (sorry cut and paste error)
4 x Twin Heavy Bolter, 30cm, AP4+
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Space Marine Tactical, Devastator & Scout units).

Dissagreement then comes arund how to make it a command tank.
Options so far.
Give it leader.
Give it commander.
Give it Supreme Commander.
Just give it a character upgrade.
Make it availible to formations with characters.
Give it the command staff on board.

Anything I've missed?

Oh cross post from the request for salamander/IF artwork?

I have read that, but then you have to look at the effect on the game.

The way the mechanics for that would work is the same as for the current Damocles stop gap - add a captain to a rhino. Here this would be add a supreme commander/other commander to the heavy bolter 'raider. The question then becomes what is a heavy bolter 'raider doing int he army?

An AP Land Raider isn't needed and detracts from the destructor, and if you are adding it to formations thats the comparison (1 rhino and one destructor verse 1 prometheus). So I'd like to have all that gear represented. leader is one way and perhaps isn't the best. Thinking more perhaps commander is the best way to go.

Then in every army the stats can be the same, but for other non salamander forces the army list would stat the first prometheus taken may be a supreme commander and priced accordingly (about say150 points, though needs a lot more testing). The salamnder list doesn't get that note and costs say 125. That way the other lists that are supposed to have rare prometheus have a disencentive, and the salamander list doesn't.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:06 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 19 2007,06:27)
QUOTE
I also think that this should be uncommon and only used to support battle operations. So in that sense I'd not use it as common tank. Even perhaps on the Salamander list. Yes they have more, but the use of it as support vehicle against infantry feels wrong for the idea of the tank.

i agree, maybe it could be a 0-1 upgrade for the army?

but i also think it would be ok to give it Supreme Commander for 125 or 150 points.

(modified because i'm stuiped :confuse:  :) )




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:15 pm 
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You don't need leader if you have supreme commander :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Both this and the Damocles should be 0-1 per army, according to the background (Each chapter only has 1 or 2 of each vehicle at most).

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:17 pm 
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'Cept salamanders of course :)

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Jus use character upgrades.

Prometheus - LR + SC
Damocles - Rhino + Commander

No new units/rules.  No additional notes needed for "no more than one SC in the army."  Nothing but a design note about how to represent them.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:56 pm 
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Not of coursew. Perhabs! Only because of the name the Salamanders seem to be the inventor of the Prometheus. Does the fluff state that they have more Prometheus' than other chapters?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:05 pm 
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Yes.

re the cahrachter upgrade - It would work for land raiders - but the stats are very different.
It works with damocles but its madness to do it in a gt list.

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:27 pm 
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I completely agree with the stats in the start of the thread, but like the Damocles I don't think that a vehicle should have command abilities simply because it is a command and control vehicle.  I know that special rules are severly frownewd upon here, but I think that the Prometheus and the Space Marines in general would be better served by a special "control" oriented rule for this.

I read the fluff in IA2 and I saw the story as being a description of its control abilities.  From what I remember it was able to coordinate an assault on the offending Eldar by being able to coomunicate with some far-off Space Marine units.  Hence the reason why I suggest this special rule for the Prometheus:

"Commander in the same detachment as the Prometheus ignores 5cm restriction between detachments that go on combined assault, all other rules apply."

I think that this would be prefereable for several reason:

1) It would fit the assault-oriented Space Marines rather well.
2) It would help the Salamanders a lot who are pretty light in the rapid attack department.
3) It would allow the Salamanders to field several of them without any degredations between them.
4) If needed we can genericize the rule, make it a special ability, and add it to other races/armies as appropriate.

What do you think?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:35 pm 
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I like it :)

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:14 pm 
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I think Leader would do fine for both the Damocles and the Prometheus. It helps with removing BM since that formation is better able to keep in contact with command, and can be cumulative with having your own leader in the formation. I don't see it needs to be Supreme Commander.

My stats for these guys are here:
http://geocities.com/eoinwhelan/SMvehicles.htm
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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Land Raider Prometheus
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:50 pm 
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But since we already have rules for having the Supreme Commander on the table, the Prometheus should improve that in some way - not be the Supreme Commander itself. Eh, it just doesn't sit well with me, and doesn't seem terribly worthwhile when you could just take a SC anyway.
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