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The Mud-Marine Challenge
Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:09 am 
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Greetings all, and welcome to another game of 'put your money where your mouth is'!

Battle-brothers, you are challenged to design a 'Mud-Marine' army of 2700 points.  'Mud-Marines' means NO Teleporting Terminators, or Air Assaults of any kind.

You are further challenged to play this army against any and all opponents, official or experimental, using the Tournament scenario, and at least report the results back to this thread.  If you write up a battle report, I'd like at least the final results posted here with a link to your BATREP.

*CLANNNNNNG!*  Brothers, the Gauntlet has been thrown.  Are you Marine enough to pick it up?

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Chroma
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:58 am 
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If I get the chance, this is the "Mud-Marine" army I'd field:

Armoured Recon Deployment - 2700 points

Scouts HQ
4 Scouts
1 Rhino
2 Razorbacks (Lascannon)
1 Supreme Commander

Scouts 1
4 Scouts
4 Razorbacks (Lascannon)
1 Sniper
1 Librarian

Scouts 2
4 Scouts
1 Rhino
3 Razorbacks (Lascannon)
1 Sniper
1 Librarian

Land Speeders 1
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Land Speeders 2
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Land Speeders 3
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Whirlwinds - (BTS Goal)
4 Whirlwinds
1 Hunter

Warhound 1

Warhound 2

Thunderbolt Squadron

If you don't like to include Titans then either swap in two more Land Speeder Detachments (with 5 Tornados in each) or the following:

Tactical Detachment 1
6 Tactical Marines
6 Razorbacks (Lascannons)
Commander

Thoughts?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:10 am 
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No Predators or Land Raiders ?

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:10 am 
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That's exactly the kind of army I'm talking about.  

If you can swing it, would you play three games, one with each option (Titans, Land Speeders, and Tacs)?

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Markconz
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:24 am 
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Chroma - can you suggest something that takes decent numbers of armour and tactical companies (assault, devatastor, tacticals)?

The only mud marines I have taken that work are:

Lots of tacticals
Whirlwinds
Some Thunderbolts

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nealhunt
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:16 pm 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Oct. 23 2006,00:09)
QUOTE
Battle-brothers, you are challenged to design a 'Mud-Marine' army of 2700 points.  'Mud-Marines' means NO Teleporting Terminators, or Air Assaults of any kind.

SMs have limited options for dealing with certain kinds of targets.  This restriction is comparable to saying "you can't take any AA in any form" in that it removes an entire category of tools from the force, leaving them especially vulnerable to a certain kind of attack.

There's a difference between a force with a certain character and eliminating an entire aspect from a force.  I don't think it's necessary to completely elminate all deepstrike options to have a "mud marine" force.  I'd say that a single Thawk or a single Termie formation still leaves a force that is primarily "mud marine" in character.

I would call this a "mud marine" force and I have fielded similar ones successfully many times:

Tacticals w/ SC
Tacticals w/ 6 Razorbacks (BTS)
Tacticals
Terminators w/ Chaplain
Bikes
Bikes
Speeders w/ Librarian
Speeders
Tbolts
Tbolts

Maybe not everyone agrees that is a "mud marine" force, but it's awfully vanilla with respect to Marine background material.

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Honda
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:18 pm 
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I think Neal brings up a very important point about  steering to the expected result by neutering enough of the list to say: "See, told you so".

So not necessarily a statistically valid approach.

However, not willing to be a complete stick in the mud, I'll fiddle around and see what would appeal to me, but don't be surprised if you don't see a lot of tanks. That's not where I see the SM strengths, airborne or not.

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:48 pm 
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(Chroma @ Oct. 22 2006,20:58)
QUOTE
If I get the chance, this is the "Mud-Marine" army I'd field:

Armoured Recon Deployment - 2700 points

Scouts HQ
4 Scouts
...snip...

Scouts 1
4 Scouts
...snip...

Scouts 2
4 Scouts
...snip...

Land Speeders 1
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Land Speeders 2
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Land Speeders 3
5 Land Speeders
1 Librarian

Whirlwinds - (BTS Goal)
4 Whirlwinds
1 Hunter

Warhound 1

Warhound 2

Thunderbolt Squadron

If you don't like to include Titans then either swap in two more Land Speeder Detachments (with 5 Tornados in each) or the following:

Tactical Detachment 1
6 Tactical Marines
6 Razorbacks (Lascannons)
Commander

Thoughts?

You have pretty much avoided getting into the meat of the matter by drawing up a force that is the air-cav's big-boobed ugly cousin.  The real advantage of the Thunderhawks and the drop-pods in the air-cav force is to get troops into combat very quickly without exposing them to significant fire in-transit.  (Yes, yes, there is AA, but set that aside for now.)  By taking Scouts (with their Infiltrate ability) and Land Speeders (with their high speed and Skimmer abilities) you have replicated the rapid assault nature of the air-cav without actually flying in Thunderhawks.

If you really want to take the challenge then you need to include some Tacticals and Devastators.

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Bombot
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:48 pm 
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Call me masochistic, but was going to give the following list a whirl anyway. ?It?s 3000 points, because that?s what I use, but it fits the criteria: ?

Tactical detachment plus Supreme Commander and Razorback 425

Tactical detachment with Chaplain 350

Devastator detachment plus Hunter and 2 Land Raiders 425

Scout detachment with Sniper 175

Scout detachment 150

Land Speeder detachment 200

Whirlwind detachment plus Hunter 375

Warhound titan 250

Reaver titan 650

TOTAL 3000




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consectari
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:06 pm 
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Where's the armor!?!?!?!?!?!?  LRs, Preds, and Vindis need a fix too.   A fix can't be made  on no data.  

I use these all the time.  No air cav(helps that my opponant doesn't field aircraft), no teleport, no drop pods.  They're not that tough for the points, they get smashed, but they belong in the list.  Just look at my sig.  Why are they there if not to be played?

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Bombot
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Ok, a couple of alternatives:

Tactical detachment plus Supreme Commander and Hunter 475
Tactical detachment with Chaplain 350
Devastator detachment plus Hunter and Razorback 350
Scout detachment with Sniper 175
Scout detachment 150
Land Speeder detachment 200
Land Raider detachment 400
Warhound titan 250
Reaver titan 650
TOTAL 3000

or

Tactical detachment plus Supreme Commander 400
Tactical detachment with Chaplain 350
Devastator detachment plus Hunter and Razorback 350
Scout detachment with Sniper 175
Scout detachment 150
Whirlwind detachment plus Hunter 375
Predator Annihilator detachment 300
Warhound titan 250
Reaver titan 650
TOTAL 3000

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:39 pm 
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I will field this against Siegemasters:

Tactical plus transport + SupremeCommander 400
Tactical plus transport + Chaplain 350
Assault + Chaplain 225
Assault + Captain 225
Devastator plus transport + Librarian 300
Devastator plus transport 250
Land Raiders 400
Vindicators 300
Whirlwinds 300

Warhound Titan 250

3000pts in total

No Terminators or Scouts because i don't own the models.




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consectari
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:16 pm 
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Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!  

Doesn't have to be all armor, but they ought to contribute.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The Mud-Marine Challenge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:19 pm 
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Yep !  Combined Arms !!! :D

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