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Thunderhawk Transport Costing
One Thunderhawk Transport 150 - Two 275 points 43%  43%  [ 9 ]
One Thunderhawk Transport 150 - Two 300 points 38%  38%  [ 8 ]
One Thunderhawk Transport 125 - Two 250 points 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
One Thunderhawk Transport 175 - Two 350 points 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 21

Thunderhawk Transport Costing
CAL001
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Following the discussion, I thought we should have a vote to see where people think testing should start from.

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CAL
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:35 pm 
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I've gone for 150/275, just because275 is dead centre between the cost of a Gunship and a Landing Craft, which seems like a good place to start.



EDIT: Oh and here are the Transporter's stats we're thinking of starting the testing with:

Thunderhawk transporter

Type    Speed  Armour CC  FF
Bomber   na        4+    6+  5+

Weapon                         Range    Firepower   Notes
2 twinlinked heavy bolter  15cm    AP4+/AA5+  Left Arc
2 twinlinked heavy bolter  15cm    AP4+/AA5+  Right Arc

Notes
DC2 (critical=dead), Planetfall, Reinforced armour. Transport: 2 from the following list: rhino, razorback, predator, vindicator, whirlwind, hunter; OR 1 from the following list: Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader; PLUS  any infantry transported in the vehicles

Thunderhawk Transporters sometimes operate in squadrons. If more than one Thunderhawk Transporter is present in a squadron, transported units from a single formation may be spread between Thunderhawk Transporters (this is an exception to the rules in section 3.1.3).





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Suvarov454
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:27 pm 
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I'm a fan of starting points high, and reducing them as you go. ?I realize most people prefer to start low, and increase the points, but I fear that leads to undercosted units. ?After all, if a unit costs too much, everyone complains. ?If a unit costs too little, only opponents complain, and they ususally don't submit as much feedback.

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CAL001
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:52 am 
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I'm for starting in the middle and deciding wheather it is to cheap or to expensive. As we have seen from the proposed Marine changes alot of things are being reduced, with only one or two proposed increases.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:29 am 
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One THawk Transporter for 150, two for 275.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:40 pm 
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150 each is the way forward (and, incidentally, my original estimate...)

125 is too cheap. They'd be a bargain, and 2 for 250 would almost always be better than a regular T-hawk for 200.

175 each is too expensive. You'd be better off with a Landing Craft than a formation of 2, and a regular Thunderhawk than one. (Note that this is a reversal from what I've already posted - I've been convinced :p)

I don't support a reduction in price for a formation of two. Remember that they will often be taken as pairs, and that a formation to be airlifted in gets to keep ~40 points of FREE transports.

I wouldn't recommend playtesting at two for 275... see how they are at 300 and compare them with when used singly or against a LC. If they desperately suffer we can think about reducing the "for two" cost, but much better to err on the side of too expensive for exactly the reasons Suvarov454 has outlined. Personally I suspect that two Transporters will be worth twice as much as one.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:31 am 
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You may need to state the number of infantry units that each can carry as currently you allow the 'Russian Doll' effect that the core rules state you can't do. Minor point but could open up debates latter.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:44 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Oct. 31 2006,08:31)
QUOTE
You may need to state the number of infantry units that each can carry as currently you allow the 'Russian Doll' effect that the core rules state you can't do. Minor point but could open up debates latter.

This was discussed and an exception was inserted into the notes, because the Thunderhawk Transporter cannot transport any infantry at all unless it carries transport vehicles.

This is a cannon ability (Or lack thereof!) and we cannot change it.

The exception could be made more explict however.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:56 pm 
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The wording is the best I can do: we can make it more explicit, but it becomes more confusing. A simple explanation with the datafax or FAQ is probably better in this case.

Note that the above datafax does NOT allow the russian doll tactic. As the rules are written, the thunderhawk transports the infantry, but it can only carry as many as could fit in any transported vehicles. (Yes, my mind works in all sorts of twisted ways, but this doesn't technically contradict the core rules this way). The net effect IS effectively the russian doll tactic, because that's how T-hawk transporters are meant to work.

EDIT:
Looking at it again, would this be more explicit?
"Transport: 2 from the following list: rhino, razorback, predator, vindicator, whirlwind, hunter; OR 1 from the following list: Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader; PLUS any infantry potentially transported in the vehicles"
or
"Transport: 2 from the following list: rhino, razorback, predator, vindicator, whirlwind, hunter; OR 1 from the following list: Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader; PLUS any infantry capable of being transported in the vehicles"
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:46 am 
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Edit: Any news on the availability of the model?


There may be a minor delay while new bases are delivered.

I wouldn't expect it to be too long however.

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Soren
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:39 pm 
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Keep in Mind: You get a Landing Craft for 350 with much better armament and better transport capability.

Whats the point to buy two transporters for 300? I don?t know

Soren

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Thunderhawk Transport Costing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:58 pm 
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You don't have to put all your eggs in one basket if you take Transporters.

Also you have the possibility of dropping a smaller formation (Such as Devestators in two Rhinos) from a single Thunderhawk Transporter. So if the full infantry transport capacity of a Thunderhawk Gunship isn't required, you can go with the cheaper Transporter and bring Rhinos for the formation at the same time.

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