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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Beavercreek, Ohio, USA
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Incidentally Blarg what would your famous system (still don't think it can do assaults ?) think of 1 typhoon in a formation of mm's?
Nothing.
The system is pretty much a multiplication of to-hit probability, number of attacks, and range, with a lot of modifiers based upon weapon characteristics such as MW, TK, first strike, slow fire, etc. ?It is safe to use when you try to make like items equal to each other like land speeder variants; once you start comparing things like land speeders to Predators it breaks down because it is not designed to handle gross differences like LV -vs- AV, skimmer -vs- non-skimmer, etc. ?There are a lot of assumptions built in to the system, some of them worth arguing over, and it is definately not a perfect system, but as I have applied it more and more I am becoming more confident in it, especially when it comes to basic ranged weapons. ?Anything dealing with FF comes in a close second.
The land speeders were pretty easy because the stats for the three different land speeders were the same, the only differences were the weapons. ?I plugged the weapons in (Yes, I did account for the Multi-melta's special FF rule) and compared the results. ?The base model and the Tornado had the same rating while the Typhoon came in higher.
The only thing I feel safe in definately declaring is that the Tornado is not worth the 10 point price increase because it and the base model have the same Firepower Potential. ?I can say with certainty that the Typhoon is worth more than the base model (as anyone else can see too) because it has a higher Firepower Potential, but I can't say by how much.
Blarg: ?I agree your system is a pretty good estimation, but the biggest disagreement I have with it is your valuation of MW.
Actually how it handles MW weapons is pretty solid, and I am very confident in that aspect of it. ?Take a look at the Imperial Titan weapons in the AMTLv2 realease. ?The Gatling Blaster (60cm, 4 attacks, AP4+/AT4+) compared to the Plasma Cannon (60cm, 4 attacks, MW4+, Slow Fire). ?Pretty much everbody agrees that the two weapons are equal in capability, the Gatling Blaster has the Jervis Johnson Seal of Approval while the Plasma Cannon has pretty much universal endorsement from us in the Proletariat. ?My system doubles the effectiveness of MW weapons and halves their effectiveness if they are slow fire. ?Compare the two weapons above, and you can see that the Plasma Cannon is pretty much a MW, slow fire version of the Gatling Blaster.
Your valuation of CC/FF is the second concern I have because of the way you determine "effective range" for assaults. ?IIRC, you also don't discount assault firepower due to the fact that using it renders the unit vulnerable to return fire (but I could be wrong on that - it's been a while).
Yeah, my system has a problem with comparing CC weapons to ranged combat weapons, and relies heavily on shaky assumptions for comparing FF to ranged combat. ?I feel that it is sufficient for comparing CC weapons against each other, though. ?The FF aspect part of things, while rather weak, have shown to be rather close in mathematical comparisons -vs- accepted stats.
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I really didn't want to get into my system with you guys. ?Hardly anybody understood it when I explained it years ago, and everybody back then wanted to tear apart something that was only intended to be a design aid and diagnostic tool. ?I had always said from the beginning that anything I produced from it would require playtesting, but that important caveat always seemed to fall on deaf ears.
Ever since I stopped being very active with Epic:A and AMTL development I have been using my system on a wide variety of different units. ?A lot of the results have shown that the system is surprisingly good, and I am going to continue to use it to generate my own comprehensive list of units, variants, and army lists for my group.
When I resurrected this thread all I wanted to do was show support for Hena's assertion that something is not quite right with the Land Speeder Tornado. ?Instead of sounding like another gamer lobbing an uninformed opinion I wanted to show that I had actually put some thought and work into the question. ?Take it for what you will, I know you guys are going to do whatever you want to do. ?In my "Giant Epic: Armageddon Excel Spreadsheet Of Doom" I am going to set the base Land Speeder and the Land Speeder Tornado equal to each other in points.
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I shot a Deathstrike Missile and destroyed an enemy titan in my pajamas last night. ?How it got into my pajamas I still don't know...
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) think of 1 typhoon in a formation of mm's?