Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Space Marine unit changes?

 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I was sure there was a list of proposed changes to the Marines on the SG website but I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me to them? Also how far have these rules come? Are they generally agreed as standard now for marines?

Cheers


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:51 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
There is not a generally accepted set of changes.  This is a very common set that a large number of people agree on, but many think it's not enough or prefer different adjustments here and there:
===

TSKNF - Leaders remove 2 BMs.  BMs count half in assaults.  (also common, no outnumbering bonus in assaults, just double outnumber)

Armor formations -25 points
Add Hunter upgrade to all

Vindicators, 25cm move (lots of other proposals - hordes, even)

Attack Bikes 35cm move (also common, make them mounted infantry)

Terminators +25 points

(also common, Dread formation 4 for 200 or so)

===

And I'm probably missing something commonly used...

===

Edit:  Forgot the FF upgrade to 4+ for LRs and Pred Destructors.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:54 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks Neal. Is there a SM army champion at this time?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:28 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
AWOL I believe.

Here is a thread with my analysis of the army plus the various recomendations that follow from it from everyone else.

Disscussion

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:23 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Crimson Fist was the army champion but disappeared a while back.  A replacement was discussed several times and a couple of people have approached Andy to volunteer.  Andy came to the ERC and questioned whether a champion was needed at all.

For the time being the plan is just to have the ERC do the mods, assuming the rules review is completed.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:12 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Beavercreek, Ohio, USA
Here is what I am proposing to my group:

I suggest the following list of changes.  I think they should make it equally tempting to field any kind of marine force you would want.  If not, there is one other additional idea we may want to consider: treat Landing Craft, Thunderhawks, Strike Cruisers, and Battlebarges like they are titans and Imperial Navy aircraft, limiting them to 1/3 of the total points.  While it should be possible to assemble an entire drop/air assault Space Marine army they would not have a lot of AMTL or Imperial Navy help, which makes sense.

For the Codex Astartes list:

Change the costs for certain units:
Vindicator detachment from 300 to 275 points
Predator detachment from 300 to 275 points
Land Raider detachment from 400 to 375 points
Terminator detachment from 325 to 350 points
Landing Craft from 350 to 375 points

Remove the +10 point cost to upgrade Land Speeders to Land Speeder Tornados.  These two units are effectively the same firepower configured in different manners.

Upgrade the FF ratings on the Land Raider (to FF = 4+) and the Predator Destructor (to FF = 4+) as discussed previously.

Allow the Hunter wider availability to the other AV detachments (Vindicator, Predator, and Land Raider) as discussed previously.

Make the changes to the ATSKNF rule as discussed:
- Number of Blast Markers is halved when counting modifiers for assault resolution (round down)
- Space Marine with ?Leader? special ability remove 2 Blast Markers instead of 1.

Change the Attack bike from an LV to INF and up the speed from 30 to 35cm.

Upgrade the Land Raider to have the ability to carry 1x dreadnought in addition to the current 1 Terminator or 2 regular infantry.  (So Land Raiders would be able to carry either 1x dreadnought, or 1x Terminator, or 2x infantry.)  Change the Dreadnought upgrade to include and allow Land Raiders.  Allow Land Raiders to be added to tactical formations, not just so that they can carry dreadnoughts for that formation but so that you can carry Tacticals also.  (Imagine a Landing Craft with 2x Land Raiders, 3x Rhinos, 2x Dreadnoughts and 6x Tacticals in one formation to take an objective.)

Create Dreadnought formations of 4x Dreadnoughts for 200 points and allow the Commander (Venerable Dreadnoughts), Hunter, Land Raider, and Vindicator upgrade.

Remove Scouts from the list of different infantry units the Drop Pods can carry.  While they should be able to use Drop Pods, that would only be for strategic reasons and never for combat drops.

Add Assault Marines to the list of different infantry units the Drop Pods can carry.

Add ?plus transports? to the units listing for Assault Marines.  Adjust formation points cost if needed.

Expand the Commander Upgrade to include Techmarines and Apothecaries.  Each would be 25 points and give Invulnerable Save to appropriate units (INF and LV for Apothecaries and LV and AV for Techmarines) in the formation.

Create stats and formations for Veteran Assaults, Veteran Tacticals, and Veteran Devastators.  Allow 0-3 total number of veteran detachments, where with all chapters 0-3 of them may be Veteran Tacticals and only 0-1 of them may be Devastators or Assaults, all of which can take Land Raiders.  Other chapters would be able to take 0-2 of a certain type and none of one of the others.  Blood Angels would be allowed 0-2 Veteran Assaults and no Veteran Devastators.  Dark Angels would be allowed 0-3 Veteran Tacticals (Deathwing) and no other veterans.  Space Wolves (and probably the Salamanders) would be allowed 0-2 Veteran Devastators (Space Wolf Long Fangs) and no Veteran Assaults.  (TheSpace Wolf Veteran Tacticals would represent the Wolf Guard.)

Create stats and upgrade line items for Land Raider Prometheus and Rhino Damocles.  My suggestion would be to make the 0-1 availability Prometheus allow commanders to call combined assaults without the ?within 5cm? restriction.  I suggest that the 0-1 availability Damocles allow Terminators teleporting within LOS of the Damocles to re-roll their teleport rolls and allow the Space Marine player the ability to call in an Imperial cruiser or battleship orbital bombardment, assuming that they have paid for it?s stats and formations.

Create stats and formation info for the 0-1 formation availability Land Raider Helios and 0-1 formation availability Land Raider Crusader.  While these are mostly associated with other chapters they seem to have spread across the different chapters to a limited degree.

_________________
I shot a Deathstrike Missile and destroyed an enemy titan in my pajamas last night. ?How it got into my pajamas I still don't know...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:44 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Blarg D Impaler @ Jun. 08 2007,15:12)
QUOTE
Create Dreadnought formations of 4x Dreadnoughts for 200 points and allow the Commander (Venerable Dreadnoughts), Hunter, Land Raider, and Vindicator upgrade.

I'm still not a fan of the Dreadnought formation, but I would like them to see more play.

Here's my proposal:  A Space Marine formation may replace all its Rhinos with a single Dreadnought for free.  The Dreadnought upgrade may still be taken.

That way you could harden your garrisons formations nicely and see more Dreads!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Hey if it works for Blargs group, more power to him - for me I would split some of those changes across several lists.

Note on drop pods - it is easist to add 'drop pods' and make it on the list of upgrades than alter the datafax - that allows the strategic use but the combat use (gt army list) is then out. PLus people like whitescars can then drop pod their scouts.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:51 am
Posts: 61

Here's my proposal:  A Space Marine formation may replace all its Rhinos with a single Dreadnought for free.  The Dreadnought upgrade may still be taken.

Chroma's proposal looks interesting for me, I will probably give it a try, for a testgame. Then you have Marines dugging behind Dreads instead of behind Rhinos (and also as garrision).

I've tested a Dreadformation (4 for 175 + 1 additional for 50) last game, which did quite a damage armed with 5 Twin Lascannons and 5 Missile Launchers.

To another marine subject. I find the vehicle cover roule still very tought especially by playing with orcs vs marines. (I'd most of the times only shoot at the vehicles, with were have es easy to hit and had a worse save.)

I'm also against the veteran stuff. What I could imagine would be heavy transport (landraider) for tacticals to represent veterans.

I'm also against techmarines and apothecary as hena.

There is still no real ideas/consensus for the vindicator.

The attack bike changes are now discussed in a new thread.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:41 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

(nealhunt @ Jun. 08 2007,13:23)
QUOTE
For the time being the plan is just to have the ERC do the mods, assuming the rules review is completed.

When is this likely to happen Neal?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:41 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Hena @ Jun. 08 2007,15:57)
QUOTE
No veteran anything. Definitely not something that has not existed in normal marine list (veteran assault etc.).

No techmarines, apothecary etc. Next people start wanting to add banner and that crap as well.

Lol, yeah something like the list most people have been playing will do fine I think. Just need the ERC to put something up, get a bit more feedback and rubberstamp it.

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:44 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
And try -10pts for each attack bike chosen. :)

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Space Marine unit changes?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

(Chroma @ Jun. 08 2007,15:44)
QUOTE
That way you could harden your garrisons formations nicely and see more Dreads!

Chroma, I assume when you say harden, you mean in terms of firepower? As taking 3 units from the formation to add 1 means you effectively weaken it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net