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Pre heresy World Eater list?
Grimmaw
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:37 pm 
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is there any such thing
i tried the search function but there were no matches
and i cant find anything on the wikiwikiwar army list page
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:02 pm 
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I don't believe there is one.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:43 pm 
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Wouldn't it basically be the Codex marines list?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Basically, yeah.

But the Tactical Marines would have bolt pistols and close combat weapons (ie: CC3+ / FF5+), and probably wouldn't have missile launchers, just like Assault Marines. That'd be about the only major difference.




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frogbear
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:01 am 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 01 Jul. 2009, 23:44 )

That'd be about the only major difference.

I was thinking landraiders (old pattern) instead of rhinos as well.

It just seems right for some reason...

I have done a little research on this subject and came to the conclusion that the World Eaters would need two lists. One would be similar to what Inquisitor has produced (post heresy), and the other would be a 'just pre-heresy/time of the heresy' list that would incorporate the berzerkers as the die hards along with World Eater marines that had the 3+/5+ stats as indicated with no 'Fearless' rule. There was even an idea in my mind for a scout unit much like in the opening scene of Conan, yet in marine armour.

I will get back to that little project in the near future after I get some real life out of the way..

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Honda
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Pre-Heresy lists are a very intriguing topic. They are actually significantly different than standard codex, but it would take some decision making to figure out what really translates down to the Epic scale.

I think that E&C is right that you could make a decent go of a PH list using the standard codex, but I would recommend looking at the Tempus Fugitives PH lists as well as the Bell of Lost Souls PH codex to get some ideas that you might want to incorporate.

PH Alpha Legion has a particular interest for me.

Actually, does anyone else think it would be a worthwhile exercise to create a PH section for continuing PH discussions?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:22 am 
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I agree with Honda. The Legions, as they were back then, were far larger than a Chapter and look to have been organised differently. Whether that needs to be translated into Epic is another matter of course.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:02 am 
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They had lieutenants. The 1st versions of predators had space for an infantry fireteam. The first land raiders couldn't carry terminators, they were exclusively teleported in. Whirlwinds had multi launchers firing krak missiles and were an addition to rhinos that still allowed them to carry men. Marines used a variety of support weapons including mole mortars, rapiers and thudd guns (my old models have marine crew moulded on interestingly enough). Use of SHV's like capitol Imperialis happened in some warzones. What other stuff was different back then?




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British
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Wouldn't a heresy-era list also feature a large ammount of Imperial Army troops in addition to Marines, given they didn't tend to work seperatley.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:34 am 
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Nah, same commander, different parts of warzone.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:09 pm 
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I have seriously been considering tackling such a list and have been looking at the Bell of Lost Souls Heresy Era World Eaters Gladiator Company.

In this they have the following:

Gladator Company
- Honour Guard - 5(6) men
- Tac Squad - 10 men
- Tac Squad - 10 men
- Tac Squad - 10 men
- Tac Squad - 10 men
- Assault Squad - 10 men
- Assault Squad - 10 men
- Assault Squad - 10 men
- Assault Squad - 10 men
- Devastator Squad - 10 men
- Berserker Squad - 10 men

So my thought is 2 core choices in a list that consist of 10 stands (50 men) each. Then they would have free upgrades. Something similar to as follows:

Code Sample: 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Core Units
Squad             Description                   Upgrades                        Points
Tactical          10 units of Tac Marines       Devastators,Honour Squad        ?
                                               Vehicles, etc.          
Assault           10 units of Assault Marines   Berserkers, Drop Pods, etc      ?


Upgrades
Devastators       Replace 2 units in any Tac Squad with 2 Dev Units             Free
Berserkers        Replace 2 units in any Assault Squad with 2 Berserker Units   Free
Honour Guard      Add 1 unit Honour Guard to any Tac Unit                       ?
Vehicles          etc etc                                                       ?

Support- 1 Support may be taken for every 2 Core units

Squad             Description                  Upgrades                         Points
Terminators       4 units of Terminators       Teleport, Drop Pods etc          ?

etc etc etc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lower on activations for sure, yet larger numbers and reduced technology.

1. All units would have the rule ATSKNF.
2. Jump Packs are a rarity so probably not available in the World Eater List - prefer drop pods
3. No Chaplians or Librarians - These form part of the normal troop base
4. Supreme Commanders to gain inspiring or maybe have this as a skill to add for a cost (0-1)
5. Swap all assault cannons for Reaper Auto Cannons
6. Terminators maybe lessened in a FF due to twin bolters instead of Storm Bolters?
7. No Land Raider Crusaders, Razorbacks, or Predator Annihalators
8. Jetbikes may be in as a specialised assault unit?


So what do people think of a list made with such a structure?




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British
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Replace Supreme Commander with Primarch? At the scale of Epic its not like the individual actually has any larger effect.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:05 pm 
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Quote: (British @ 05 Aug. 2009, 16:12 )

Replace Supreme Commander with Primarch? At the scale of Epic its not like the individual actually has any larger effect.

Not bad. That would allow a 2nd commander model as the Primarch's 2nd in charge. Not a bad idea.

If I get some time I will kick this one off. What I really need to know is what were the main differences in weapons and options on vehicles (eg. predator have a transpoert capacity as TRC pointed out above).

Maybe start this one on the weekend.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:22 am 
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This one is quite a hard one to tackle as including larger numbers means more expensive units and less activations.

Also, I have a copy of the Collected Visions book and there are enough pictures throughout that of World Eaters with jump packs and land speeders to justify that they were heavily used within the World Eater force.

I will get to it but it will not be this week.

Anyone else have the time to place up ideas or a list for a Pre-Heresy force wether that be World Eaters or not?

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The Red Sorcerer
 Post subject: Pre heresy World Eater list?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:44 pm 
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There was an aborted attempt to come up with a Legion list a while back - see discussions hereand here. One of the problems that came up was balancing ATSKNF with the larger formations that seem to most to be appropriate for Pre-Heresy and Heresy Era forces.
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