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Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:13 pm 
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Apothecary - Allows you to re-roll one failed infantry armour save each time the formation comes under attack.

Techmarine - Allows you to re-roll one failed vehicle armour save each time the formation comes under attack.


This would replicate how they tend to operate on the 40k scale (Saving infantry, repairing vehicles).

As rules, Rubbish or Good?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:19 pm 
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I'd worry a bit about how this might interact with Reinforced Armor... Potentially you could get 3x 4+ saves and a 6+ save off of a unit with Invulnerable Save and Reinforced Armor... Also: What kind of upgrades woudl these be? New kinds of Commanders for marines? Something entirely new? Currently they're typically fielded as part of the retinue of a Space Marine Commander... Not as independent unit-leaders except for certain variant chapters. With 3 4+ saves you'd only have about a 12.5% chance to fail. Seems a little too good against a lot of attacks.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:22 pm 
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There's a Universal Rule : You can never re-roll a re-roll.

Thus where RA was present it wouldn't have any impact.


My Marine army is Red Scorpions, which in 40k have the trait that lets them take Apothecaries in every infantry squad. I think there's something similar for Techmarines too, though you can't get quite as many you can still increase their numbers.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:24 pm 
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These have come up before and I think it was by you. :D


Aye I mentioned them a few months ago in another thread.


I just find situations where we have models, but no rules for those models, to be something worth thinking about.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:41 pm 
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Aye I know, you can certainly do that (One of my objective markers has an apothecary tending to a marine who's leg has been blown off), but I'm all in favour of finding some balanced rules for them if we can... they *used* to have specific rules, no?

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:27 pm 
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If i use a Devastator unit with attached Librarian i use a stand with one Techmarine und 4 Servitors.
So no different rules. Its only for the looks :)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:42 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 05 2006,14:13)
QUOTE
Apothecary - Allows you to re-roll one failed infantry armour save each time the formation comes under attack.

Techmarine - Allows you to re-roll one failed vehicle armour save each time the formation comes under attack.


This would replicate how they tend to operate on the 40k scale (Saving infantry, repairing vehicles).

As rules, Rubbish or Good?

I like both ideas. For those who aren't familiar with the SM2 rules, there were specific rules for them then (the Apothecary was simply called a Medic) and I would like to see them again. I don't remember them having a huge impact on the game, but they did add a little more flavor.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:16 am 
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Yep, we still use rules based on the SM2 system for medic, Tech, etc. ... we got the figs, we made the stands ... it works for us !

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dafrca
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:28 am 
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I am with Hena on this one. I do not think we need to keep trying to find ways to add this level of finite detail unless it is to fill a hole.

If there is a need for the Marines to have even more help, figure out what they need and use these to give it to them. But I am against doing rules for them just because.

dafrca

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:53 pm 
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I for one have no problem with adding Techmarines and Apothecaries.  But then again, that may be nostalgia in me talking.

The only problem with allowing them to give armor re-rolls is that it is dependent upon the armor of the troops/vehicles and not on the skill of the Apothecary/Techmarine.  Would an Apothecary have an easier time of saving a Terminator as opposed to a Tactical?  Would a Techmarine have an easier time repairing a Land Raider instead of a Rhino?  The value of the Apothecary/Techmarine is dependent upon the armor save of the units in the formation, making the pricing a pain.  You have to have the effects of the Apothecary/Techmarine dependent upon the Apothecary/Techmarine, not on the unit it is attached to.

Since everything is abstracted in this game to one extent or another, the emphasis should be on the specialist, and that we should try to use existing mechanics as much as possible, I suggest this:

Apothecary - Gives all Infantry and Light Vehicles in the unit it is added to an Invulnerable Save - 25 points

Techmarine - Gives all Vehicles and Light Vehicles in the unit it is added to an Invulnerable Save - 25 points

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Bombot
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:00 pm 
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(Hena @ Aug. 05 2006,19:19)
QUOTE
And then I thought that these are too small characters to make a dent in epic. I still think the same.

I agree.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:13 pm 
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(Blarg D Impaler @ Aug. 08 2006,12:53)
QUOTE
Since everything is abstracted in this game to one extent or another, the emphasis should be on the specialist, and that we should try to use existing mechanics as much as possible, I suggest this:

Apothecary - Gives all Infantry and Light Vehicles in the unit it is added to an Invulnerable Save - 25 points

Techmarine - Gives all Vehicles and Light Vehicles in the unit it is added to an Invulnerable Save - 25 points

I like your idea, Blarg.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Stats for Apothecaries & Techmarines.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:29 pm 
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DWWFY or DWWFU (Ork Translation) ... :;):

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