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Marines vs. Titans
Pariah Press
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:10 am 
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Marines are supposed to be self-sufficient forces, right?  First in, hit hard, leave the clean-up for the Imperial Guard.  What happens when they run into an enemy Titan, then?  

1.  Massed Land Raider attack: Send an armored company or two to deal with the titan.  You lose a lot of Land Raiders this way.  

2.  Terminator slug-fest: Teleport Terminators in to attack the titan in hand-to-hand combat.  This is the most popular option under the current rules, if I understand things correctly.  This sounds totally preposterous to me.  

 Why is it that the marines have reasonable no way to destroy titans?  This seems like an oversight to me.  Some possible answers:

A.  Superheavy tanks: The Shadowsword and Stormblade were made for this type of mission.  They're rather bulky for space marines, but there is some slight fluff justification for including them in a Marine force.  The Ultramarines vehicle list in WD97, for instance, lists heavy tanks (heavy than Land Raiders).  

B.  Thunderhawk Annihilator: This beast was mentioned briefly in relation to BFG.  Its capabilities are vague, but it seems to have some nice bombing abilities.  Perhaps it could have some sort of titan-cracking bombs?

 Any thoughts on this problem?  Surely the Codex Astartes took this into account, even if various game designers never did!

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Markconz
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:26 am 
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Bring your own titans?

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:12 am 
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I'm with Mark ... the best Anti-Titan weapon ... is another Titan ... I don't know where this new breed of Epic players gets it, but more and more, I see a force without Titans trying to take on a Titan(s) ?!?!  :;):  Madness ! :oops:  It can be done but it's going to cost ... :D

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CAL001
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:16 am 
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Hi

There was some discussion about changing the orbital attacks of stike cruiesers and BB so that they had a pin point attack. It didn't go very far though. I'm with the others take a titan or two.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:23 am 
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Ortillary (or as it was called in SM1 and we still use it - Off Board Support, which includes various missiles, too !), is very useful ! ?:D




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Tas
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:38 am 
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I used to swarm it with Land Speeders and thier nasty multi-meltas similar to the LR concept.  But I havent tried that yet in EA as I subscribe to the Titans kill Titans theory also

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:26 am 
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Great "Military Minds" do tend to think alike ! :;): Also check out the link on Maksim's Blog about the "Evolution of Warfare" ... he knows what I/we like ! :laugh:  Didn't realize/know how much firepower my  units had in the '80s !!! :;):

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Dingodv
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:14 am 
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If I were actually 'there' I would probably use massed meltabombs at critical points such as legs deployed by assault marines.  If you don't break the leg you at least fuse it together, and we all know what happens when a walker leg can't move properly *remembers ESB*

Maybe asssault marines could gain a MW attack for use against titans...
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Morg
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:09 am 
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Apart from the Terminator tactic I usually tend to evade such a beastie.

My marines are so few and the titan is so big... better not fight it. The marines mobility does a good job achieving this.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:14 pm 
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Other methods for dealing with titans:

1)  Assault and break the titans (clipping works best).  Keep hounding them so they have minimal chance to rally (-1 rally for enemy within 30cm).  Break them again if they rally.

2)  Avoid them.  Titans can only hold a relatively small amount of territory and keeping territory is what the EA objectives are about.  SM formations are compact and can play havoc with cover and titan fire arcs.

3)  What Tas said - I used to swarm it with Land Speeders and thier nasty multi-meltas similar to the LR concept.  But I havent tried that yet in EA as I subscribe to the Titans kill Titans theory also
 works in EA, too.

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:23 am 
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Yes, the problem with using Titans against Titans is you have to land the damn things.  It's easy to bring in Marines using Drop Pods and the relatively evasive Thunderhawks.  Titans require huge, ungainly drop ships, which cannot be used until air superiorty is achieved.  
 In many ways, a Titan is similar to a fortification, albiet with legs.  Heavily-armoured, with big guns, slow-moving.  ("armoured..."  you Brits are affecting my brain!)  Astartes seem to be particularly adept (no pun intended) at gaining entry to fortifications...  cutting the head off the opposition, so to speak.  I've found Devastators to be reasonably efficient at stripping off the void shields (at least in NetEpic), but there's still nothing to deliver the coup de grace.  Something's missing, and I think that the Epic SM army list is too similar to its 40K equivilent.  
 Or maybe I just hate Land Speeders.  Those damned things ALWAYS die before they get in range!

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:44 am 
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We consider Titans = Land Battleships; Warhounds = DEs, Reavers = CAs, Warlords = BBs, Imperators = Yamato/Mushasi (!).  The fact that they have to be landed by Heavy Dropships, really has no bearing on the game. The game is just a slice of the battlefield, obviously most of the stuff on the board was landed somewhere on the planet. :;):  Titans vs. Titans is the way we do it ... attrite the OPFOR Titans until they no longer present a threat with your Titans and everything you got ... Nullifying the OPFOR's Titans is like gaining air or naval superiority ...  They have to be priority targets unit they no longer present a threat.  CAS, FA (including Deathstrikes), Orbital/Off Board  Support Assets (SM1) and anything else you have to take out these very large, well armored, heavily armed targets ...  Or suffer ... :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:14 am 
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Another problem is your titan (in your marine army) sticks out like a sore thumb against say a traitor guard force. And they have deathstrikes and shadowswords galour all to kill titans.

Its strange that the army you would have thought you would see most int he company of Titans (guard) are int he army that doesn't need them in general battle.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Marines vs. Titans
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:32 pm 
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A 50 or 60 foot walking target ... hmmm ?! :oops:  They rarely survive in any of our games ... We use the SM1 rule where only 25% of TBL can be used on Titans and Off Board Support (33% if CAS is added), unless it's a AM/TL force then 50% ...   If a Titan does survive ... it's in very bad shape ... :D  "Heavy weapons draw fire and very heavy weapons draw a lot of fire !"  :laugh:

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