Tactical Command
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The various chapters
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=6706		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
I see the odd Marine fanlist crop up every now and then - however one thing that stops me commenting is I'm never sure what actually are the differences between the chapters not being a 40k fan. Indeed I've tried some of the lists out and some had problems, others were more balanced and so on, but I was never actually sure about how they should be different for the regular marine experience.

So it would be a great help for me at least if people could fill me in. I tried this a few months back on the 40k GW forum and had a dozen people miss the point and say that game rules can't be divulged. All attempts that the rules would be useless and this was for an entirely different system was met by bafflement.

So, can you all fill in the blanks so to speak.

Chapters equipment, tactics and availible stuff (what a heading)
Please add more stuff, even basics may have changed a bit witht he new codex and I get mixed up with Dawn of War :)

Ultramarines - The standard bunch
10 companies
Do use teleporters
Codex tactics
Aerospace assets
Drop pods, Thunderhawks, Landing craft, Battle Barges, Strike Cruisers
Motor pool
Hunters, Predators (anti AP and anti AV), Whirlwinds, Land Raiders, Land Raider Crusaders, Vindicators, Bikes - Marine/Scout, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders - Normal/Typhoon/Tornado, Razorbacks, Rhinos, Dreadnoughts.
Leaders
Captains, Chapter master, Libriains, Chaplains, Techmarines, Apothacaries.
Troop types
Veterans
Terminator or power armour.
Terminators
5-10 strong squads, 2 Hve Weapons
Power armour
5-10 strong squads, 1 Hve Weapon, 1 Special Weapon, Assualt weapon options.
Tactical
5-10 strong squads, 1 Hve Weapon, 1 Special Weapon
Devestator
5-10 strong squads, 4 Hve Weapons.
Assault
5-10 strong squads, Jump Packs (optional), assualt weapons.
Scouts
5-10 strong squads, mix of light weapons e.g. sniper rifles, close range firefight etc, 1 heavy weapon.

Dark Angels
Codex with the exception of 2nd company - tis a recon/fast attack force callef the ravenwing using nowt but Land Speeders and bikes.

Blood Angels
11 companies - 10 codex companys plus Black company, not permanent unit.
Do use teleporters
Codex tactics, propensity for assualt, more jump packs than normal?
Aerospace assets
Drop pods, Thunderhawks, Landing craft, Battle Barges, Strike Cruisers
Motor pool
Same as codex +
Faster rhinos? Furiso Dreadnaught (hve flamer, more CC weapons, no heavy weapons), Baal Predator (twin ass. cannon + 2 Hve flamer).
Leaders as codex
+ Sanguinary Priest?
Troop types
Veterans
Terminator or power armour.
Terminators
5-10 strong squads, 2 Hve Weapons
Power armour
5-10 strong squads, fight as assualt marines
All other troops the same.
+ Black company. Frothing loons, assualt orientated. May have jump packs.

Space Wolves
I take it each Grand Company is a seperate formation and a list would be one of these?
No teleporters.
Tendancy for assualt, options for more assualt weapons than regular marines.
Motor pool
Same as Ultramarines plus Leman Russ battle tanks and Blood Claw bikes. Any subtractions?
Lack of heavy weapons in all but devs - 'long fangs'
Leaders
Different names, but same abilities?
Troop types
Wolf Guard - 20 men? (Is this correct?)
Terminator or power armour
Terminators, equipment?
Power Armour, equipment?
Grey Hunters
6-10 Strong, more assualt weapons than tacticals, 1 special weapon.
Long Fangs
3-5 strong, 4 Hvy weapons, 1 special weapon
Blood Claws
8-15 strong, assualt weapons, jump packs?
Wolf Scout
4-6 strong, 1 special wepaon, light and assualt weapons. Armour?

Space Wolves 13th Company (is this a seperate army?)

Salamanders
7 Companies
Veteran, 3 Combat Companies, 2 Reserve Companies, 1 Scout Company. Composition?
Lack of speeders and bikes
High incidence of tech gear.
Extensive use of flame and melta weapons.

Raven Guard
Codex, but lack of heavy equipment, reliance on inflitration and similar.

Imperial Fists
Codex. Good at siegeworks.

Iron Hands
10 companies - each contains scouts and veterins, like mini Space Wolf Great Companies.
Few terminators and Dreadnaughts. No terminator squads.
Terminators and bionics in normal squads.
Leaders
Techmarines and Chaplains combined into one type - Iron Father
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
Those are pretty close.  

I'd like to add that the Dark Angels can field more terminators than anyone else.

Space Wolf Scouts are in normal Scout armor, but 'do not play well with others'.  They're the SAS/Delta Force of M41, and can show up behind enemy lines.

The 13th Great Company is referred to as the 'Lost'.  Legend has it they were sent into the Eye of Terror, chasing down the Traitor Legions, by Russ himself.  They are a 'light infantry' list.  No vehicles (except bikes) at all.  Some units can 'gate' (ie, teleport) across the battlefield.  FWIW, I don't think they'd be an effective Epic army.

Raven Guard can go one of several directions.  They are covert ops, relying on scouts.  They are vertical envelopment, relying on drop pods.  They are a 'choppy' army, relying on Assault Marines.

Iron Hands are the most techie of armies, and would have the most Dreads and Termies (outside the DAs and Wolves).
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
I thought salamanders had the most tech, the iron hands having lost theres during the heresy when the terminators, land raiders etc got drop site massacred.

The 13th company could be done, just with extensive use of infiltrate and teleport to simulate these jumps. (Imagine their surprise when...)

Raven guard though could just be codex. They avoid open war until theres no other option and thats when the heavy gear would arrive, making them a fairly conventional force? Indeed thats the way GW went, it all becomes clear now!
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
Perhaps I misspoke about the Iron Hands.  They see the flesh as weak, and replace much of their flesh with bionics, starting with at least one hand, in honor of their Primarch.  They are skilled artificers (as are the Salamanders), but in fluff have gunned down even loyal PDF for trying to redeploy to a less exposed position.

The Sallies are the most humanistic of Chapters, living among their people as leaders, not apart from them as near-gods.

13th Coy would need even more Meltaguns and powerfists than they currently carry (in 40k) to be effective in epic.  Indeed, I think they'd need more MW attacks than my EA Space Wolves list.

While Raven Guard are covert ops specialists (of Primarch's experience before, and of necessity after the dropsite massacre), that doesn't make them any more or less capable of deploying for a massive assault if it were necessary.  While I generally disagree with GW's traits for them in 40k, in epic I'd just use them as a Codex Chapter.
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
I agree on Raven Guard.  They are one of my favorite chapters and I was going to do a fan list for them, only to discover that I really had no significant changes from the EA Codex list.

Just use drop pods and/or a guerilla style and you're done.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
Here is the complete layout for the Salamanders:


THE SALAMANDERS
CHAPTER ORGANIZATION
HEADQUARTERS
The title of Chapter Master is taken by the
Captain of the First Company
(who act as his personal bodyguard).
Administrative Staff Support Personnel

ARMOURY
Techmarines
Servitors
Predators, Vindicators,
Whirlwinds, Rhinos,
Razorbacks, Land Raiders

LIBRARIUS
Chief Librarian
Epistolaries
Codiciers
Lexicaniums

FIRST COMPANY `FIREDRAKES`
Chapter Master
Master of Chaplains
Chief Apothecary
Chapter Standard Bearer
Squads:
12 Veteran
Support:
Dreadnoughts
Rhinos
Land Riders
Terminator Armour

BATTLE COMPANIES
SECOND, THIRD AND
FOURTH COMPANIES
Captain
Chaplain
Apothecary
Standard Bearer
Squads:
7 Tactical
3 Devastator
2 Assault
Support:
Dreadnoughts
Rhinos
Bikes
Land Speeders

RESERVE COMPANIES
FIFTH AND SIXTH COMPANIES
Captain
Chaplain
Apothecary
Standard Bearer
Squads:
8 Tactical
4 Devastator
Support:
Dreadnoughts
Rhinos

SEVENTH COMPANY
Captain
Chaplain
Apothecary
Squads:
6 Scout
Support:
Bikes
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
Stuck questions on this on your fanlist thread as well - in essence do tac squads carry multi meltas as well as heavy flamers? How common are these?
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
For anyone wanting to do a chapter-specific list, I highly recommend reading the design concept in the White Scars article/list.  It explains very well the idea that a chapter list can be simply a preferred style of operation and does not have to mean that the chapter itself is non-codex.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
No. The only difference in WH40k (according to new Codex Space Marine) is that they can choose to have  a second specialweapon instead of the heavy weapon (eg 2 flamers instead of flamer and roket launcher).

In Codex Armageddon they can have a second flamer (without heavy weapon) or a multi-melta as heavy weapon.
Author:  Xisor [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  The various chapters
Heavy flamers are as common to Salamanders(now) as they are to any marine chapter. It's preference and doctrine that sets them apart, not necesserilly a departure from the codex IIRC. Only their company organisation differs significantly, and their general modus operandi(when not training, they often work alongside the rest of Nocturne being leaders and such).

Their Tactical Squads can be easily optimised for decent 'firefighting' ability at the loss of extreme range(this is a common thing for the Salamanders, wheras Chapters like the Ultras have this option, it's simply rarely used; the Salamanders focus on it).

It tends to be dual special weapons, but since the Multimelta needn't be useless in Epic unlike 40k, I don't see why we can't represent that well here. Plus it's pretty swish!

Essentially, it's 'reasonable' for the Sallies to be represented by a Codex Chapter that simply has the 'FF Tacticals'. Perhaps allowing an option for each stand for a tactical squad would help the Marines a bit...

As for the Iron Hands: they venerate the Machine God, and are essentially cult mechanicus, favouring tech above flesh etc. However, if I'm not mistaken, they're not renowned as being unusually brilliant artifiers or anything, just focusing on it.

The Salamanders OTOH are, if I'm quoting correctly: "the greatest artificers outside the Adeptus Mechanicus". How to represent this, I don't actually know, but the point stands: they are.

With Raven Guard, I'd agree, it's best just to go 'codex' with them and play to their style rather than addlibbing a huge set of special rules.

Xisor
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