i was anticipating 5 for 275, 6 for 300. Depending on the starting point that is either 25 each or 50 & 25

Managed to play a game with the trial list tonight, 3K against Ork speed freaks. SM won with the final activations claiming 2:0 (Blitz & T&H). To trial some of the new units, I took:

Tact + 2 LRC + 2 Pred + hunter + Sup comd
Speeders (3x MM) + 2 Typhoon
Speeder (3x MM, 2x Tornado)
Scouts + Storms
Devs + Librarian + 2 Dreadnought (1 Tac, 1 Hellfire)
Thunderhawk
Predators + Hunter
Vindicators + Hunter
Vindicators
Thunderbolts

More info to follow in battle report, but the disrupt on the vindicator was certainly beneficial against the smaller ork formations. Opponent saved well but disrupt alone broke formation on 1 or 2 occasions.
Storms make for a very fast scout unit. I must admit they mostly performed blocking roles and this unit can spread out a long way! I certainly liked the inclusion of the typhoons at 2 for 25.

The 2 vindicator formations were probably in their element this game against a high Inf/LV enemy force that wants to close, need to see how they would fare against a IG list or similar with lots of RA and decent saves.

In turn 3 I managed an assault with the monster tactical formation, where it pasted an ork speedfreaks warband, scoring about 10 hits in the assault for the loss of 3 tactical stands. It did suffer afterwards though due to some decent ork shooting.

The 6 strong (5+hunter) predator formation took on a large fortress mob in the last 2 turns, dealing significant damage, arguably more than a warhound, but a warhound would have been more multi-purpose, able to deal with the inf/bikes as well. However I was happy with them, the were my main AT unit and from turn 2 they were able to adv and fire on their primary target so I guess you could say they had a good game.

I took a lot of AA, 3 hunters and tbolts, but in the end the orks still had 5 of 9 fighter bombers and the lander died during a failed (rather unlucky) air assault. I'll get sethanon to comment later but none of the changes felt OTT, I think he was happy to see no titans, or terminators for once.

In building a more competitive list along these lines, I'd probably drop a vindicator formations and thin out the tacs to take some whirlwinds.

Thanks for the feedback Ortron.

I imagine the Vindicator's Disrupt will simply suppress IG units with RA rather than kill but less shooting in return is always a good thing.

Sounds like a fun game Ortron. Really loving the predator upgrade option, gives the marines a bit more bite.

D.

I wanted to respond to these, no idea where the rest of the ERC sits with them so this is just my two cents.

Preds to 5 strong

We should strive to not break people's existing army builds at this point in Epic's life cycle. Models are getting harder to come by for good prices and I can't see myself going out and tracking down more E40k and EA Preds for my Marine armies because of this change (so I'd likely just play the old list). You're looking at adding a Predator upgrade, why not just give that to the Pred formation instead? Give people the option of a 5 or 6 strong formation, don't mandate it.

Predator upgrade

Not opposed to it as it does add more flexibility to a ground pounding list, but 75 for two is really cheap. I'd have less of a problem if they were +50 each. You might want to consider just grouping these in a single upgrade with Vindicators, unless formations of 8 SM tanks aren't that big of an issue from testing.

Why were Vindicators removed from the Assault and Predator formations though? Typos?

Warhound singleton 0-1

If it's an internal balance thing, I'd go to the points, and save the 0-x for fluff reasons. I haven't played too many games with them, but I haven't found them that good and you need to stop me from taking 2 or 3 in a 3k list.

Vindicator

This is armed with the same Demolisher on every other piece of IG armor, so I think Disrupt is too much of a break from what everything else is doing. IC on the FF I can see as it's armed solely with the Demo, where others can have that abstracted out in favor of a better FF value.

Land Raider Crusader
Land Speeder Storm

I'd rather see these in variant lists, if only to give them more variation from the Codex list (and keep the Codex list from becoming a kitchen sink list). Does the Cerebus Launcher actually have a shot now in 40k?

Spacecraft transport

I don't know why it wasn't this way from the start.

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The core Space Marine codex list is fine the way it is. I like it.

Does making War Hounds a 0-1, really make the codex marines more challenging to play? If this is a tourney issue let the TO handle it.

Yes Preds are fragile at only 4. Use them wisely. Same for the Vins, application of assets, right tool for the right job. Its your list. If these detachments are hung out to dry, review your approach to combined arms.

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YUUUP
I'll reiterate: The Codex 2015 List MUST be backwards compatible with prior collections. Anything else is pure unadulterated FAIL TM

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+1 on everything Dave, m_folais and jimmyzimms just wrote.

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+1 to uberChris' post.

-3 point penalty.

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Any scope for inclusion of thunder fire cannons given TMGs releases?

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Likely no. The theme of the Codex list is rapid assault (generally with a heavy air presence) rather than static defense. If you notice, the changes were in size of upgrades and formation composition, not units themselves.

We got a nice place for thunderfires in the IF list (and the assaulting counterpart, Siege Assault Vanguard) list already

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