JuronValor wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Eldar a single formation of Nightspinners is weak and easily broken / destroyed. Multiple Night Spinners are much more potent and scare a lot of people (I think I am the only person to field five formations to date . . .)
Excuse me, no offense.. but no wonder why.
Night Spinner - AV,
35cm, 5+, 6+, 5+ 45cm 1BP indirect,
distrupt,
hover,
transport 175p three of them (58,3 one). A good 50p less then should. And I seen in a list even cheaper (maybe 165p).
Whirlwhind - AV, 30cm, 5+, 6+, 5+
45cm(???) 1BP indirect 300p four (75 one)
And a single hit on the Whirlwinds breaks them, while it takes three hits to break the whirlwinds. Yes, the NS are cheap but very brittle which is why many prefer the Void Spinner; this *was* considered too cheap at 250 points so raised in E:UK to be 275, a lead that the current NetEA AC looks set to follow.
However, my point was that multiple formations of a single type has a multiplying effect - Try building an army around three sets of WW (as a laugh) and see how they do . . . .
JuronValor wrote:
Vindicator:
The demolisher cannon IS a macro weapon. If chaos has already have lots of macro, why don't you take away some of their toys? If they have alredy that much.
Why bother the only single marine MW weapon, which is rightfully theirs?
To be fair, the issue is actually power creep in the lists, of which this is quite a good example. WHY do we need to arm the Vindicator with a MW weapon???
With all due respect, I doubt that making the Demolisher MW will actually see them taken more often in Marine lists (though it may well assist other lists
). The reason is simple, Marines need high speed manoeuver to ensure that they can concentrate at a single point where they overwhelm the opposition, hence they work best with some form of air assault. The trick is to have sufficient support to keep the opponents off-balance for the rest of the game.
In this, a 4x strong Vindicator formation is just not fast enough to fulfil that support role. The WarHound on the other hand kicks out more firepower, is faster and arguably better armoured than a formation of Vindicators - and singleton Vindicator upgrades hinder rather than help most of the formations that can take them . . .
JuronValor wrote:
Taking away titans dosen't solve anything (I never use warhounds by the way).
The problem is WHY they must NEED to take them.
By which I assume the implication that they provide MW firepower - well, so do Landspeeders . . .
Again, the actual issue is HOW to use the Vindicators. They are good in a niche role of assaulting or supporting assaults against cover - they are the archetypal city assault tank, not an open area battle tank. In this role, IC and *possibly* Disrupt are more than sufficient - MW is going
much too far, especially considering the wide-ranging implications across multiple other lists (Chaos).