Hi Jim. In the spirit of discussion, perhaps you could explain further why these changes should be adopted.

They can, by accepting risk. And indeed the enemy deployment zone turn 1 is normally the worse place to fly airplanes due to the flak. But a nice bombardment removes those hydra or similar and let the thunderhawks fly in...

And both can be countered, whirlwinds with init 1 SR 5 are likely to go first and automatically activate then hitting with 2 templates on 3s and 4's. Would be absolutely fantastic in conjunction with Teleporting terminators or air assaults, and absolutely lethal to any other artillery or fragile vehicle formations

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Whirlwinds are specifically light, highly mobile artillery which sacrifice the range and hitting power of Imperial Guard artillery for speed and ease of transportation.

Additionally, as 40k is more or less World War II IN SPACE, I will point out that traditional heavy tube artillery outranged rocket artillery two to three times.

From my pov, WW are usually kill #1 for my opponent's air force/artillery. I've stopped using them because 1xAA4+ shot from a hunter or two isn't enough to stop them from being reduced to a pointless inclusion.

Aye they can be #1 target. That's also though an air sorte that's not blowing something else important up however. I think the ability to pad the formation might help some as well as the PPU being reevaluated.

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Agreed Dobbsy which is why using multiples makes sense. And spamming WW with 120 cm range would be even more lethal. And with no restriction, I would be amongst the first to try six or more such formations to back up some scouts bikes and land speeders. Heck I might even try that as they are

Here you go Ginger

WHIRLWIND [375]
4 Whirlwinds, Hunter

WHIRLWIND [375]
4 Whirlwinds, Hunter

WHIRLWIND [300]
4 Whirlwinds

WHIRLWIND [300]
4 Whirlwinds

WHIRLWIND [300]
4 Whirlwinds

WHIRLWIND [300]
4 Whirlwinds

TERMINATOR [400]
4 Terminator units, Chaplain

THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk gunship

SCOUT [150]
4 Scouts plus Transport

SCOUT [150]
4 Scouts plus Transport

SCOUT [150]
4 Scouts plus Transport

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Sounds about right Meph - any takers . . . ?

So this list would use 120cm range WW?

God no!

Ginger likes to push the envelope!

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If you put WWs in they are important to your game plan

Pad it with an extra vehicle? Drop the points on the 4?

6 Strong WW with a Hunter have worked well for me twice in the Iron Hands. Of course we also don't have teleporting termies so there's some balance on that on the units themselves.

I agree that if you're taking them as a disposable unit, they're too expensive. They're at the magical junction of just strong enough to not ignore but too expensive to throw away either.

In a 3k game there's just more important things to handle unless you totally "get on the bus" like occurred in the EEC. Totally different story at 5k. They're probably fine as is but a single formation is not going to cut it; They like friends .

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If WWs are important to your game plan, bring 2 fms.

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