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Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=27659		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Hello gang,

we've been discussing the imperial fists again, several people have suggested the inclusion of basilisks or medusas in the list, they synergise very well with the siege theme, and provide a long range counter-battery capability, google indicates that during the heresy, the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists both made use of loads of them, and the IW still do..... but they're a bunch of heretics with no respect for the glorious, inerrant codex astartes

so I've put a poll up, it will run for 10 days, please vote on whether these siege artillery pieces should be included in v0.3 of the Imperial fists list, if anyone can point out sources that say they definitively do or do not use them in the 41st millenium.... do share....

alternative suggestions also welcome!
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
CaptPiett has played with them a few times in our group. None of the games went to the Fists.

Static Marines takes away their main advantage, precision engagements. Marines don't do well counter-punching or waiting around to react.

Basilisks would at least allow them to disrupt the enemy in their deployment zone, I think it would be fun to test out.
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
+1 to nerdrage from me
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
more than happy to trial them, and agree with your points, although the batrep captpiett posted in the IF thread, he won against BL so they're not totally hopeless, I've also won against Tau with them, but that was with basically zero fortifications and a bunch of units Steve hadn't faced before.... he hasn't let me win since ;)
Author:  GlynG [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
No. Most legions used them around the time of the Horus Heresy, but when they split the legions up into chapters and focused their purpose and wargear more as fast special forces rather that generalists slow artillery and slow guard superheavies were lost. The legions that turned to chaos never reorganised so would still have them, Iron Warriors in particular.

Lots of 30k vehicles have been given rules as rare relics in 40k, but FW haven't done so for the basilisk or Medusa. They've never been an option in 40k Imperial Fists army lists either.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Perhaps we should rephrase this question:
Imperial Fists list needs counter battery and attacker dispersion weapons. Indicate what weapon system(s) would be appropriate.

Perhaps various WW launcher emplacements or Hyperios launchers? Both are marine equipment.

Also just to have nerd-rage people back up a bit, need I remind them that both Space Wolves and Iron Hands lists were allowed to take "heavy equipment" at one time (Leman Russ Exterminators and Medusas respectively) so there IS precedence.

I have no horse in this race so don't care that much is decided but the needs of the game balance come in far ahead of anything fluff-raged based.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
GlynG wrote:
No. Most legions used them around the time of the Horus Heresy, but when they split the legions up into chapters and focused their purpose and wargear more as fast special forces rather that generalists slow artillery and slow guard superheavies were lost. The legions that turned to chaos never reorganised so would still have them, Iron Warriors in particular.

Lots of 30k vehicles have been given rules as rare relics in 40k, but FW haven't done so for the basilisk or Medusa. They've never been an option in 40k Imperial Fists army lists either.


Give it time, FW have released HH basilisks for pre-order..... they'll be turning up as rare relics before you know it.... ;)
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
OHHHHHH entire Unbound Imperial Fists armies consisting nothing other than Medusas and a Wraith Knight! ;)
Author:  captPiett [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
I voted yes/game balance for the reasons Dave mentioned, actual record of my IF notwithstanding. If they're going to be anchored by field works, they should have ranged fire. And I mean long-ranged fire.
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Space wolves had the LR in a codex though (i don't know much about iron hands, but again I assume there is a source for that).

Basilisks seem to be being added just because there is a weakness that can't be fixed otherwise. Seems a very odd solution, to nick a unit from a different army race with no fluff justifying it for game balance (yes they had them in 30k, no they don't have them in 40k).

That said, if basilisks are added I (and anyone else who doesn't like em) can just elect not to take them, it isn't the end of the world :)
Author:  captPiett [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Don't worry, the poll just started less than an hour ago. No one's doing a victory lap quite yet :P
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Space wolves had the LR in a codex though (i don't know much about iron hands, but again I assume there is a source for that).

Just for completeness, Index Astartes III

I'd be fine in giving them tons of WW emplacements :D
Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Voted "Other":

How about letting them ally with an IG artillery battery or company? It'll compete with Titans and Navy, then, and would look fluffy: IG heavy guns paving the way for an IF (counter)assault.
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
Alternate suggestion: allow up to 4 vehicles to garrison in a IF fortress (that many could fit into a Castelum easily). The IF player could then garrison a whirlwind formation and hit the enemy baseline.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Should the Imperial Fists have basilisks and/or medusas?
^has merit^
Might actually make an interesting formation on the list itself. Forward Artillery Base?
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