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Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26662		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GlynG [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
What are peoples opinions on the Land Speeder Typhoon? Do you use them and find them effective? In particular do any of you field full formation(s) of 5 of them and how do you find them?

I find them too expensive and not worth taking compared to free Tornados and Las Razorbacks. Compared to a Tornado for 25 points extra they get AP3+ rather than AP5+ and +15cm extra range on that one gun. The extra range might occasionally be useful, but if you just have 1 in a formation to place a far off blast marker it's a waste of the rest (and with movement 35cm it's not hard for Land Speeders to get in range) while a formation of 5 for 325 just seems too expensive for 5 fragile LVs.

Epic-UK price the Typhoon upgrade at 10 points. To my mind that's a bit too cheap, though closer to the mark than 25. I propose the cost should be changed to 15 points in the codex astartes and other lists. Given that it would be the only 15 point upgrade in the list if you take just 1 or 2 in an army it would effectively work out basically the same as paying 25 or 50 for them now (so I suspect no change for the majority of those who do take them), but there'd be a discount when taking 3 or more in an army and a formation of 5 Typhoons would be +75 extra rather than +125.

Some years ago I went out my way and bought 5 x EpicA Land Speeder packs so as to be able to field a formation of Typhoons but out of dozens of games with my SMs I don't think I've ever chosen to field them and find that a bit of a shame. I was just going to make this a post for discussion, but thought it might as well be a poll.
Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
Haven't voted, since I honestly don't know if 25 is too much.

But for a datum point - I always take one Typhoon in LS formations, to allow placing blast markers from a distance. And yes, they have adequate movement to get into range with other weapons, but laying the BM from 45cm away means that they can often do it with a pop-up attack from behind blocking terrain.

On the other hand, I never take more than one; The primary utility of the LSs are as scout screens and FF support, and for that I find the Meltas more useful.
Author:  GlynG [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
Thanks for the reply Speakertomachines. Out of interest do you ever take 3 or more Land Speeder formations including a Typhoon in an army?

If you just take 1 or 2 your army would work out basically the same, as at 15 you'd need to take 3 or more before the saved points came to over 25.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
I've always felt 325 points to be a little high for the full 5 as I was planning on doing a similar thing myself but never ended up getting the 5 packs.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
I think even at 10 points a pop they arent worth it over tornados.... compare them to a falcon formation for example..... same points and I know which I'd prefer!! :)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
EUK have had them as 10pts each for quite some time. Zero issues.
Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
GlynG wrote:
Thanks for the reply Speakertomachines. Out of interest do you ever take 3 or more Land Speeder formations including a Typhoon in an army?

If you just take 1 or 2 your army would work out basically the same, as at 15 you'd need to take 3 or more before the saved points came to over 25.


I sometimes take two LS formations, each with a single Typhoon. I never take more (don't have the models).

And I agree, any proposed price reduction is only relevant for all-Typhoon formations. I think Marines have better fast stand-off shooting capabilities in Predators or Warhounds, so it's not something I'd expect to use myself.
Author:  LordotMilk [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
Typhoons could live by being at 275 for 5 for certain.

However Land speeders in general would be much better priced at 225 for 5 in the first place, as they currently outshine anything else in the SM list at 200.
Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
LordotMilk wrote:
However Land speeders in general would be much better priced at 225 for 5 in the first place, as they currently outshine anything else in the SM list at 200.


I agree with this.
Author:  Dave [ Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
I've used 2 Typhoons mixed in with Tornadoes, for 250 points I'm happy with the formation. I've ever tried 5 Typhoons because I don't own that many (others are probably in the same boat). Dropping them to 10 points a pop would give me a scout sniper or razorback upgrade, hardly all that much in a 3k.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
1 for 25, 3 for 50, 5 for 75?
Author:  GlynG [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
That would be fine with me.
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
I dont think I've used a Typhoon since my first few lists (where i put one in at the communitys suggestion, for increased range) and I actually cant think of any time I've used a Tornado at all.

Land Speeders primary job has always been to throw Melta shots at things and then support in a firefight with the same. Paying 25 points to lose a fifth of that capability for a slightly increased range of blastmarker projection rapidly became a waste of points. These days, if the upgrade was free, I'd still not take it. If the upgrade didnt also come with a downgrading of Multimelta to Heavy Bolter, then I'd consider it, but even then 25 points is a stretch, thats half a chaplain after all.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
LordotMilk wrote:
However Land speeders in general would be much better priced at 225 for 5 in the first place, as they currently outshine anything else in the SM list at 200.


If that was an option, you'd probably find it getting a lot of votes. 8)
For instance, 225pts for the formation with a drop to just +10pts for the upgrade might make other SM units look more competitive with Landspeeders, and Tyhoons look more worth the upgrade cost.
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Land Speeder Typhoon - overcosted?
Dobbsy wrote:
1 for 25, 3 for 50, 5 for 75?

Maybe ask people to playtest this in all SM lists and if no problems are found implement it in next year's Compendium and Tournament Pack? It should be fine and people's opinion on them is pretty clear.
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