Tactical Command
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Who uses SM bikes, and why?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26080		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LordotMilk [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Who uses SM bikes, and why?
The question is in the title.

We have noted that people tend not to pick bikes in the Codex army in our playgroup, and the general feeling is that they are internally a poor choice.

After checking EUK lists, I did not see any bikes either.

So I was wondering if they still have some definitive use for someone?

Edit: removed the comment about their price decrease.
Author:  captPiett [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
To what speeder price decrease are you referring? As far as I know, it's always been 200. Bikes have been used to good effect in our group. They are tougher to use than land speeders for me. But, in assaults against a cc opponent they are quite useful with their 4+ ff. Dave gives them 1-2 assault bikes to lay BMs so they can prep assaults. I have yet to try them in a t-hawk, but it's intriguing.
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
I think we had a thread about this a month ago or so. Many people use bikes, they are mobile, good in engagements and cheap (for an SM formation).
Author:  captPiett [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Ulrik wrote:
I think we had a thread about this a month ago or so. Many people use bikes, they are mobile, good in engagements and cheap (for an SM formation).

Yep. Thought it sounded familiar:

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... 95&t=25937
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
I use bikes inside Thunderhawks / Landing Craft - good firefight for a cheap price. If the target can FF well (Marines perhaps), dismount so that the Thunderhawk or Landing Craft will take the first few FF hits, and if the target can't CC well, just disembark straight into CC!
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
They synergize well with predators, especially the Destructor. The Pred give some reach and the bikes take on any one trying to assault the preds. Move into support range + prep a target with the Preds, retain and engage with the bikes getting some extra ummph from the support fire, especially if you add a Chappy to the bikes. They work well together with Landers if so inclined as unlike Codex speeders, they cannot drop. In addition they make a pretty nice T3 blitz formation. I'm less inclined to use attack bikes, the addition of a HB doesn't outweigh the LV status making them easy to shoot up or as I call it, Total Poo Poo.
Author:  LordotMilk [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Why do people take them over Speeders that have more flexibility and Scout.

For the better stats characters get?

For the infantry stat over LV?

Just for their Thunderhawk use?

I noticed E&C has added scout to the Blood Angels bikes. Is that a balancing move or just for flavour?
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Rug wrote:
Bikes have better stats than Tacticals and Assault Marines and are cheaper, I'm sometimes at a loss as to why people bother with Tacs and Assault Marines!
I agree.

Bikes are definitely better than Assault marines in every respect. Coupled with Land-speeders they can make a very powerful harassment force. Devastators and Land-speeders are good for laying BMs and supporting assaults, and Terminators excel in every area except mobility, and that is what THawks are for ;)

Tacticals perform all the above less well than the relevant specialists. Indeed, two formations of Assault marines with a commander are better than a Tactical formation with a leader (although this costs 75 points less) because of their innate mobility and the second activation.

Arguably, Devastators are the most utilitarian because they can be upgraded to work well in many tactical situations, though Bikes run a close second because of their mobility.

The point about Bikes is that they can be carried in air-transport, have a better assault than all other marines except Terminators, have innate mobility that cannot be shot and they can still lay a BM after doubling so are also a viable support formation.

I suspect the reason they are not used as much is actually down to the numbers available on sprues . . . .
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
I wouldn't say they're better in every respect - Assaults can disembark 15cm from planes when landing, and they fit as an Assault/Devastator combined package in a thunderhawk (bikes have too many units in a formation to fit). Jump packs also give good straight line speed (which can be faster than bikes which have to go around obstacles), and they can go inside buildings (where bikes cannot enter). Both have their niches IMO.
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Points well made,
(though I might quibble on the Assault + Dev package, which tends to leave both formations "in harms way" after the assault. The two formation usually need to stay together for mutual support, which in turn tends to restrict the Assault Marine mobility a bit.)

However all are better than Tacticals . . . ;)
Author:  LordotMilk [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Though I get all your points and agree with them mostly, I fail to see the advantage of Bikes over Land Speeders when it comes to assault initiation or support, apart for the particular case of Thunderhawk transport.

The higher FF of bikes is not MW, and the result against pretty much everything except unarmored uncovered infantry makes LS statistically better than bikes. On top of that, LS have Skimmer and Scout, which make them great in support of air and teleport assaults on the opponent's side of the table.

Ofc there is the case to be made for the high CC of Bikes, where it is non existent for Bikes, however in game I have rarely seen Bikes actually get to exploit that advantage (perhaps also because I have not seen many bikes in comparison to LS).

When devising an all-comers list, I find it hard to justify bikes over LS, instead again in the case of the Thunderhawk transport.

But I see from the above comments that, despite their scarcity in the tournament lists, people find bikes really nice.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
I'm plannijg on adding some to my marine army, more out of a sense of completeness than anything, but they do have a few advantages over speeders in that they're INF and therefore immune to AT weapons (attack bikes aside ;)) whereas speeders are very vulnerable....with a few attack bikes they can also prep from further away which can be a huge difference, unless you're comparing them to tornados which do have worse FF.....

I am plannijg a WS force in the near future and I think big units of bikes will be far more effective out of a thawk!
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who uses SM bikes, and why?
Ginger wrote:
Points well made,
(though I might quibble on the Assault + Dev package, which tends to leave both formations "in harms way" after the assault. The two formation usually need to stay together for mutual support, which in turn tends to restrict the Assault Marine mobility a bit.)

However all are better than Tacticals . . . ;)

I always take tacticals - the best SM BTS in my experience. I prefer them to devs as the numbers make it more difficult to wipe them out.
Bikes/speeders aren't really a choice for me as they fulfill very different roles, speeders I always choose as a teleport protection screen and then to provide FF support for the ground elements of the list. Bikes I would take if I'm maxingout activations and want a cheaper alternative to termies in a thawk or a 2nd thawk load. Bikes are a choice vs assaults or devs as a cheap thawk load
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