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| Space Wolves 2.3 http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=19811 |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Space Wolves 2.3 |
Here is the playtest doc for SW2.3. http://www.players.tacticalwargames.net/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=144 Changes from 2.2 are: Added the Pack Mentality rule Wolf Guard Battle Leader -> Battle Leader for brevity Fenrisian Wolves drop back to 2+ Initiative Hopefully I got all the typos and errors this time! 
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| Author: | frogbear [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Just some quick ones. Under Unblooded you may need to remove the word "either" Quote: However, the pack is considered initiative 1+ when they undertake either an Engage action. Pack Mentality: I do not really think the 10cm is necessary. The Commander on defence is more than sufficient. It is quite a powerful ability and means that opponent charges are pretty much defensive as they cannot stop the defender gaining assists. If you do keep it, I really think there needs to be a points boost somewhere. Long in the Tooth: Again, unnecessary. I know what you are trying to achieve but again it is quite powerful - effectively removing 6BM. It is stretching the points values. .......................... Edit: In fact after thinking about it more, if characters are to be so integral (via pack mentality), I think that a boost in points is almost certainly needed. One cannot (and should not) underestimate how detrimental to an opponent the Commander on defence is - and they are also combining this with their own 10cm Commander on offence. If any squads were at a point of between two points values and were dropped to the lower value, I think they should be re-evaluated purely on this alone and be placed at the next 25 point mark. |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
frogbear wrote: Long in the Tooth: Again, unnecessary. I know what you are trying to achieve but again it is quite powerful - effectively removing 6BM. It is stretching the points values. Actually, it doesn't work in that manner anymore, now that it's no longer Leader. Firstly, it only works in rallies. Marshalling and Hold actions are Regroup effects. Secondly, it explicitly removes one, so ATSKNF doesn't double it. Finally, Dobbsy's clarified it that it only applies to the Long Fang Pack formation, not any squads that add them, and that formation can't get characters, which would be problematic. My only issue with the rule as is, is that I'm not sure it's necessary. Seems a little on the finniky side to me. Fits into the same category as Space Marine Veterans. Abstracting it a little and you wouldn't notice it's gone. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
frogbear wrote: Pack Mentality: I do not really think the 10cm is necessary. The Commander on defence is more than sufficient. It is quite a powerful ability... One cannot (and should not) underestimate how detrimental to an opponent the Commander on defence is... The defensive commander was tested and so far you are the only one that has made the observation that it is routinely effective. The majority results have been that it was rarely effective, so it really needs broader testing to resolve the issue and demonstrate to diverse groups how it can and should be used (or avoided, as the case may be). |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Dobbsy: I agree the Long in the Tooth rule isn't really needed. |
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| Author: | MikeT [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Long in the tooth does seem overly finicky, especially as it only effects one formation. Edit: also, LR Crusaders seems like something that should be Black templars only. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
After a game and some discussion with Chroma, I'll remove Long in the Tooth. I'll probably bump the Long Fangs back to 3x 45cm shots and give them the option of a hero and keep them at 300 points. LR Crusaders will remain. Firstly, I don't adhere rigidly to the idea that something in one list can't be used in another and secondly the SWs use them widely as they're an assault variant. I'll also be moving the Fenrisian Wolves into the Hunting Packs section. After the game with Chroma I've found the Pack Mentality rule is actually a nice rule for the Space Wolves if you can get into a position to use it. It hasn't dominated so far. It's quite situational as you need a Battle Leader/SC to use it and your other formations have to be within 10cm to use it, which hasn't happened often in the couple of games I've tried it in, as you're formations tend to be doing things that keep your forces spread somewhat. The one instance that it has been handy was in the game versus Chroma's Orks where two Great Companies supported each other to break the big mob and the intermingled stormboyz. |
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| Author: | Pulsar [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
about the LR Crusaders maybe make them a transport upgrade and not able to be taken as formation on there own? This has been done in other lists. but apart from that I like the list, it's shaping up nicely. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
That's not a bad idea Pulsar. I'll have a play with it when I get home and see how it fits. |
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| Author: | Sagan771 [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Dobbsy I have been looking at your list and really like the fill of the Great Company. But I'm wondering why the Leman Russ tank variant and why no Warhound Titans on the list? |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Where do you see Leman Russ tanks? |
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| Author: | Sagan771 [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Sorry there. I meant why no Leman Russ tank variant? or have they pulled that down from the 40K Codex. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Ah. Leman Russ tanks where only included in the 3rd edition Codex (the flimsy thin one). The current Codex has no Leman Russ tanks. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Thanks for checking out the list Sagan. Yep BL has it right. In regards to the warhound there's a couple of reasons they're not in the list. 1/ I feel the Wolf Scouts would do the recon for the Space Wolves. I think their pride would sort of force this. 2/ I wanted a Marine list that didn't use them as a crutch like the Codex list tends to and trial the SW without them. I figured they'd use Battle Titans to deal with enemy titans. So far, while they could still use the extra firepower, the SW haven't needed warhounds to win games I've played in - including versus lists with War Engines. Time will tell though as more people report play/games (I hope!  ).
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| Author: | Sagan771 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Space Wolves 2.3 |
Well next weekend I'll be trying this list out. playing against a IG player. What I really like about this list is the great company its reminiscent of the Battle company card in SM/TL. |
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