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Land Raider Achilles http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=19718 |
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Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Land Raider Achilles |
Quote: Originating in the closing years of the Great Crusade, the Achilles is perhaps the rarest and most venerable Land Raider variant still used on the battlefields of the 41st Millenium. It was originally created by the Imperial Fists Legion in response to a dire xenos threat now lost to the mists of history, and fittingly rare outside the noble Imperial Fists, their successors and the Ordo Reductor of the Adeptus Mechanus. The Achilles is perhaps most vaunted for its legendary durability - each stage of the hull’s construction incorporates layer upon layer of ancient electromagnetic algorithms and ferromantic incantations. This arcane lore is etched into the very structure of the Land Raider Achilles at a molecular level, and is one the most secret and ancient rites of the Cult Mechanicus. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/L ... E-KIT.html Rules: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/P ... hilles.pdf Based on this: Space Marine Land Raider Achilles Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight Armoured Vehicle 25cm 4+ 6+ 3+ Weapon Range Firepower Notes Thunderfire Cannon 60cm 2 x AP4+/AT6+ Disrupt OR Ignore Cover 2 x Twin Multi-melta 15cm MW4+ and - Small Arms Macro-weapon Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Invulnerable Save, Transport (may carry one Tactical, Devastator or Scout unit). The Twin Multi-meltas can shoot and be used to confer the macro-weapon ability tothe units firefight value. Alternatively: Space Marine Land Raider Achilles Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight Armoured Vehicle 25cm 3+ 6+ 3+ Weapon Range Firepower Notes Thunderfire Cannon 60cm 2 x AP4+/AT6+ Disrupt OR Ignore Cover 2 x Twin Multi-melta 15cm MW4+ and - Small Arms Macro-weapon Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Tactical, Devastator or Scout unit). The Twin Multi-meltas can shoot and be used to confer the macro-weapon ability tothe units firefight value. |
Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
I'd probably suggest going with RA3+. MWFF3+ looks brutal, but I guess it really does deserve that kind of power. |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
Yes it's brutal but it is only one attack. No EA whatsoever. And i think with Ferromantic Invulnerability it deserves RA3+. You drive this thing right in enemy fortifications (and survive!) and blow them apart with MW and IC. |
Author: | GlynG [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
That's one toughm shooty tank! I'd go for the 3+ Reinforced Armour - but no Invulnerable - version. The W40k one is considerably tougher against most weapons, but not versus strength D weapons, which are the W40k equivalent of Titan Killer. I like the model much more so after having seen in painted. The updated gold colour scheme for the Minotaurs does look great and I'd almost be tempted to paint my Marines as them had I not already settled for Ultramarines. I love the Mark IV Ironclad Dread too (so much nicer than the horribly ugly and badly designed main GW version), if one ever gets de-big-ulated to epic I hope this is the version that is. I'm also curious if some of the smaller transfers on the new A4 space marine transfer sheet might be a good size for epic. |
Author: | GlynG [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
What kinds of points would be thinking for this? 100 or even more? It's got to be worth more than normal Land Raiders. I guess the Imperial Fists list should have units of them and/or have them as a transport upgrade option? |
Author: | frogbear [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
GlynG wrote: I guess the Imperial Fists list should have units of them and/or have them as a transport upgrade option? They are in there currently yet without these stats. Hmm. It is an interesting formation to think about. Definitely. |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
And if it weren't it has to be as it is almost only used by the Imperial Fists ![]() But now we have the actual Wh40k rules which gives it better armour and a transport capacity (and well better FF value). It deserves to be the toughest non-WE vehicle in the game ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
So we come back to costings. Are we going to go with history and cost it to a level where it is a massive point sink and rarely used, or will it be given a fighting chance to be seen in a list? That is my main concern. What would people see these costing a. In a formation of 4, and b. Individually? |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
Difficult. I could see them acting in a formation of their own (4 for 400pts) but then their transport capacity is wasted. An other idea could be (perhabs in addition to the above) a 2 Tactical (or Jumpack-less Assault, or 2 Devastators)+ 2 Achilles formation for 300pts? |
Author: | Simulated Knave [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
If they're in a formation where they can't use their transport capacity, just deduct the cost of their transport capacity from the cost of the formation. |
Author: | madd0ct0r [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
How about only one in a list, attached to the commander formation (or something similar)? if it's a 0-1 choice, it can be relatively cheap without breaking the rest of the list. Plus that way it becomes iconic, but not a staple. |
Author: | frogbear [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
They are quite good. The list currently has them at 325 points. No doubt they will go up ![]() |
Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
I'd eyeball testing at 400pts for a formation of 4, and 100-125pts each as upgrades. |
Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
So after looking at the pdf it seems it is a) shiny and b) ignores lance and MW? Surely the only way to get b) is to ignore lance and MW? Otherwise you have gneraly toughness increased from 75% to 89% and the specific defence vs that stuff from 50% to 67% (still not 75% of course). |
Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Land Raider Achilles |
The_Real_Chris wrote: So after looking at the pdf it seems it is a) shiny and b) ignores lance and MW? Surely the only way to get b) is to ignore lance and MW? Otherwise you have gneraly toughness increased from 75% to 89% and the specific defence vs that stuff from 50% to 67% (still not 75% of course). Thunderhawk Gunships (And variants) also ignore MW type weapons in 40k, but that didn't get transferred across to Epic. In other words, if you can "fudge it" just by giving them a good armour save, that's probably better than giving them a special rule. |
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