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Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=19400		 Page 1 of 11
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
I reckon they should be 300 for the marines. Why? They would still be taken and it would knock 50 points off the most common 'winning' marine list. Make them consider the re-jigged vehicle formations instead. I mean doesn't it just pain your model collection that the land raiders gather dust while the warhounds need repainting due to all the handling?
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
What happened to the suggestion that only only one singleton Scout be permitted, and otherwise all Scout titans be fielded in pairs where possible? And that this be applied across all races and lists!
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
No idea, never heard of it :)
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
I think one question has to be asked - are Warhounds taken because they're worth 250/275/300 points and are currently cheap, or are they taken because everything else sucks or is overcosted? If the other formations are overcosted, raising the cost of the Warhound does not solve anything.

I think it's more likely the former then the latter, but both points should be considered somewhat.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Personally I've always felt the problem with warhounds is their movement speed rather than the cost; if they were movement 25cm many of the issues surrounding them would vanish.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
They're also the only long ranged MW attacks the Marines can currently get.

I think 300 for a single and 500 per pair would be fine for Marines... especially as, vs the Warhounds in Steel Legion, the Marine ones act with Strategy Rating 5.
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
300 would make no difference at all. Just replace the tactical BTS with a Devastator BTS (save 50) and drop a character then you have basically the same list.

The only change that would actually make a difference is putting thawks+LCs in the titan/air 3rd
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Quote:
The only change that would actually make a difference is putting thawks+LCs in the titan/air 3rd

What about 25cm speed Warhounds?

I've long supported the idea that that would fix a lot of the imbalances with the Warhound as compared to the other Imperial Titans.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Steve54 wrote:
300 would make no difference at all. Just replace the tactical BTS with a Devastator BTS (save 50) and drop a character then you have basically the same list.

The only change that would actually make a difference is putting thawks+LCs in the titan/air 3rd


Well the loss of a character (as most lists run with 2 warhounds at 3000) is a slight downgrade and really I think the current marine dominance is a very fine balancing act.

Quote:
Warhounds at 25cm


I'd rather see them lose fearless if we were changing stats! the speed 30 is important as it means the marines have a deployment strike weapon to prep for air assaults and drops - its a very important synergy.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Quote:
I'd rather see them lose fearless if we were changing stats! the speed 30 is important as it means the marines have a deployment strike weapon to prep for air assaults and drops - its a very important synergy.

At speed 25cm they'd still, just, reach into deployment zones. Only by 5cm though.
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Discussing this with dptdexys last night - choice for SM is either predators or warhounds for long range shooting. Warhound wins every time due to MW, RA, shields and fearless. If you want it to be a choice then warhounds need to be about 400pts so the choice is 2 warhounds or 2 predators+another activation.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
At that point just remove the single warhound and allow only pairs.
Author:  Athmospheric [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Well marines don't have many range MW weapon (librarians, landspeeder, warhound, that's all I think), they don't have many long distance engagement. The warhound occupy a small niche were they are very useful to marines.

I remember a time when the only solutions proposed to marine players to take out war engine were "teleporting terminators" and "take titans". The single warhound is the only choice of WE in the marine list that isn't a major activation sink. Making it 25cm or 300 Pts might work, but changes to the warhound need to be carefully pondered.

It might be taken so often not because its imbalanced but because it fulfil a unique role in the marine list. We need to examine how the warhound fare in the IG list and see. Does that warhound look that imbalanced when there are other WE around ?

The AMTL is another can of worm entirely, since there the warhound can take 60cm range weapons, so I don't think balance issue about the warhound in AMTL are a useful comparison for the marine case.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Not if you put up the cost of twin Warhounds too. :-)

Single warhounds are quite underpriced, ultimately. Considering the boosts Marines had in the 2008 rules review, I don't think a start of 300pts would be inconcievable, if 25cm speed is unpalatable.
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Since we are moaning about marine balance - Warhounds
Or, change the critical effect to actually matter!
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