Tactical Command
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Black Templars? (Epic UK)
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=17812		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Hymirl [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Does anyone have any experience or advice for fielding these guys? I've had a look around and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of chat about them, and the only Black Templar battle report I could see was Hena's which followed a different list.

My current thinking is to spend about 600 points on a tactical formation of doom, with a chaplain and emperor's champ, neophytes and razorbacks, it ought to break plenty of toys but seems to be putting the BTS straight into the enemies face..

Secondly, a loaded up devestator formation could be a good place to hide a supreme commander. With both you can add Land Raiders after you've splashed out on razorbacks to make sure you keep spare transport space which is key to keeping mobile.. doubly so in an army where the transports tend to die first.

Additionally without access to 'easy option' warhounds would it be a good idea to try out some Predators, they're a bit cheaper than they used to be and perhaps could have a cheaper vindicator or two that can stand at the front with the explict instruction to get shot first and bulk up numbers?
Trouble is I keep thinking, "Or I could have two units of speeders..."
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
The EpicUK Black Templars list is a watered down version of the NetEA list (it's basically a the same as the NetEA one but with some minor stat tweaks and the Sword Bretheren unit removed), so I assume it plays in a similar manner to its NetEA inspiration... that being large (for Marines) formations on the ground (with razorbacks and hunters) and very heavy air assaults from the sky.

Light on activations for a Marine list, but very heavy hitting.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Quote: (Hymirl @ Jan. 31 2010, 15:52 )

Secondly, a loaded up devestator formation could be a good place to hide a supreme commander. With both you can add Land Raiders after you've splashed out on razorbacks to make sure you keep spare transport space which is key to keeping mobile.. doubly so in an army where the transports tend to die first.

I'd agree with Ben that the list plays very similar to the netEA list that was used as it's foundation.

If you check the FAQ you have to add the LR's first then add razorbacks (after removing rhino's) so it's impossible to get more than 1 free transport place unless you add more than needed LR's.
Author:  Hymirl [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Quote: (dptdexys @ Jan. 31 2010, 16:38 )

If you check the FAQ you have to add the LR's first then add razorbacks (after removing rhino's) so it's impossible to get more than 1 free transport place unless you add more than needed LR's.

Ah, I see, that makes things a smige more difficult...

Which list is the NetEA one, is that the one by Pulsar? Also seems intresting.. sword breathen seem quite hardcore but its going to be one serious a horde of marines on the table once you have at least two crusader formations.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
The NetEA list was developed by Pulsar, and you can find the current version of it in the NetEA Marine Lists Compedium.
Author:  Pulsar [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
actually the latest version hasn't been yet used in the compendium (i think Chroma has yet to update it) there is a link in my sig.

on what to take well it can be a reasonable air cav list as it has THT's which when use well can put a powerful formation deep into the enemy's half of the table, and they only really work if you have hunters supporting them, and yes having a large Crusader formation is very useful in both being your BTS (so that your Sword Brethern aren't) and it's able to take alot of damage, if you'd like i can post up a few lists that i've to used, but it would be helpful to see how you would make an army with the list.

hope that helped.
Author:  Onyx [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
I'd love to see a few sample lists Pulsar  :agree:
Author:  Hymirl [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Quote: (Pulsar @ Jan. 31 2010, 21:13 )

actually the latest version hasn't been yet used in the compendium (i think Chroma has yet to update it) there is a link in my sig.

Yes, thats the one I've downloaded. I would love to see a few lists that you've used, that would really help me a lot.

Currently I'm mostly playing a drop troop/air cav list using the codex marines, but I'd really like to have a try with more emphasis with marines on the ground. I don't tend to field titans anyway (out of stubbon belief that Space Marine armies are for space marines!). So sending the bold ultramarines onto a crusade could be a lot of fun if it fits my playstyle a bit more!

With Sword Brethen I take it that you're going to want them on the ground to get best use of their infiltrate rule? I can see them working in drop pods but that does seem slightly wasting their ability to charge as fast as a speeding rhino! (Or razorback as the case probably will be...)
Author:  Pulsar [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
ok here are a few random lists,

Crusaders, Marshal, 4 Neophytes, 2 Rasorbacks, Hunter, 675
Crusaders, Chaplain, Hunter, 425
SB Terminators, Chaplain, EC, 2 LR Crusaders,650
Thunderhawk Transporters x2 225
Land Speeders 200
Bikers, 5 Neophyte Bikers,325
Thunderhawk CAS 250
Thunderhawk CAS 250
                                                                   Total 3000

Crusaders, Marshal, 4 Neophytes, Hunter, 625
Landing Craft 375
Sword Brethren, Chaplain, EC, 425
Crusaders, Chaplain, 2 Neophytes, 425
Thunderhawk Transporters x2 225
Bikers, 3 Neophyte Bikers, 275
Land Speeders 200
Land Speeders 200
Thunderhawk CAS 250
                                                                   Total 3000

Crusaders, Marshal, 4 Neophytes, 8 Razorbacks, Hunter,825
Crusaders, Chaplain, 4 Neophytes, EC, Hunter 625
Assault, Chaplain 225
Assault, Chaplain 225
Thunderhawk 200
Land Speeders 200
Land Speeders 200
Thunderhawk CAS 250
Thunderhawk CAS 250
                                                                   Total 3000

hope they are what your looking for , and the armys i've played against with these list are Eldar, 3 Types of Guard, Orks, Tau, Main List Marines and Red Corsairs.

any questions/coments?

Edit: i fail at copy and paste  :;):   :laugh:
Author:  Jeridian [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Our local Black Templars player uses roughly the following:

Tactical- x6. 1xEC. 2xDreads. 2xNeophytes. (BTS)
Strike Cruiser
Devastators
Terminators with Chaplain
Terminators
Thunderhawk
Landing Craft
Crusaders
Landspeeders


It plays very similar to a 'normal' SM Air Assault list. The BTS and Devs Drop Podding, Crusaders coming down in Landing Craft (possibly with Terminators), and the other Terminators either in the Thunderhawk or Teleporting.

The only differences are a meatier Tactical formation as BTS with a Fearless unit. And Crusaders as a better Supporting Fire unit than normal Land Raiders.

It is lower on activations than 'normal' though, and various grumbling about lack of Titans.

TBH though, considering they are Space Marines I wasn't expecting them to play much different anyway.
Author:  Pulsar [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Think the TH CAS is fine, the reason i don't use the TH SB is because i tend to go after AV targets with them, and the BP 2 isn't as good for that. also the BP 2 not quite as good as the Hellfire Rockets in my style of play, it could go up to BP 3 but that might be too good.

so in short it's not that the CAS is better and needs to go up it's just i like it more  :smile:

Edit : i fail at typing
Author:  Hymirl [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
I'm sort of looking at both lists, I'll probably end up mostly using the Epic UK version simply because if I took it to tournaments etc you'd need to practice with it. First.

(From Pulsar's post)
Quote: 

SB Terminators, Chaplain, EC, 2 LR Crusaders,650
Thunderhawk Transporters x2 225


Cool, so you air assault with these guys? I'm normally happy to by bold with a thunderhawk but the light light armour on the transporter tends to make me feel a bit edgey. Any sort of CAP is likely to make this end in tears... although if the opponent has much in the way of interceptors I guess you'd have to keep your anti-air real close.

Thawk CAS seems fairly reasonably priced for what it is, the bombing version does seem a bit weaker, but doesn't have underpowered stats that stand out. Perhaps making it a smidge cheaper would help it keep an edge?

On the other hand, it seems that bombers generally don't seem popular choices in any army. Since AA attacks got +1 to hit on intercept or CAP missions maybe barrage ought to get something similar on ground attacks?

(From Jeridian's post)
Quote: 

The only differences are a meatier Tactical formation as BTS with a Fearless unit. And Crusaders as a better Supporting Fire unit than normal Land Raiders.


Yes, many a time have I been envious of the lone fleeing commissar denying me BTS by stubbon refusal to die! Although its also tempting to not make him a target and have him and a chaplain go kick some ass with a bit of the old 'double the inspiring, double the fun' routine.

I'll try writing up a list for each one.
Author:  Pulsar [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
Yes i do Air assault with the THT's when carrying that formation but carefully, very carefully  :laugh:  but if you get them to the right target they tend to hit very hard.


at the moment i'm thinking about trying lists with lots of LR in them, as i now have 8 painted crusaders and  4 normal  :)
Author:  Hymirl [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Black Templars? (Epic UK)
At 75 points landraiders seem a reasonable upgrade, looking back at the EpicUK list again I was thinking of a dev unit with 4 land raiders (and a hunter) which clocks in at quite good value.. if you compare to a pure Land Raider formation you're basically getting 4 stands of devestators for the formation for 200 points... which seems worthwhile.

On the other hand, razorback spam?

If only I could add land raiders to Predator formations, they just need to be a bit beefier. :sad:
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