For those who don't know the Hyperios is a whirlwind with AA missiles.
If you wanted a straight swap in the average list would a statline of 45cm 2xAT6+/AA5+ be fair? Or 45cm 2xAT5+/AA6+? Or 30cm 2xTA5+/AA5+?
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| Hunter/Hyperios swap http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=16883 |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
For those who don't know the Hyperios is a whirlwind with AA missiles. If you wanted a straight swap in the average list would a statline of 45cm 2xAT6+/AA5+ be fair? Or 45cm 2xAT5+/AA6+? Or 30cm 2xTA5+/AA5+?
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
Compared to a Hunter the Whirlwind Hyperios is really poor. The Hyperios has a Twin-linked Hyperios Anti-Aircraft Missile Launcher. It is basically a Twin-linked Missile Launcher without an AP-stat but with an AA-stat. Direct translation would be: 45cm AT5+/AA5+ (without taking the range reduction into account for ground based AA-units) |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
Ah but it clearly fired multiple times at the enemy as they fly overhead unlike the slower single missile hunter 
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
Does it? So far i interpret it the Hunter fires Hunter-Killer missiles which are just Krak-Missiles with Unlimited range in Wh40k. So with THIS reasoning the Hunter should have a WOERSE to-hit value than the Hyperios but a greater range  |
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| Author: | vytzka [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
BL: There's no way a single krak missile would be AT4. I tend to interpret Hunter as having some kind of rapid fire system with that drum magazine, even though individual projectiles are basically krak missiles (in a way similar to the Exorcist whose volley of missiles IIRC is also averaged to a single AT attack in the SoB list). |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I'd love to see a model for one of these (I've always disliked the aesthetics of the Rhino with dustbin on top concept) but would very probably just use it as a count as Hunter. They both launch AA missiles, it's mostly just a difference of whether they come from a drum or a twin launcher. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I see the Hunter as only launching one missile at each enemy aircraft target. Looking at the model, the missile is a lot bigger than an average Krak missile. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
The hunter clearly uses ancient-technology-from-the-excellent-age-of-technology known as a SAM The Hyperious I reckon ripple fires krak missiles are aircraft, less sophisticated, more shots. I reckon it could get 2 salvos off during a WWII style firing pass. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
Well Epic rulebook says: Hunter-killer 60cm AT4+/AA4+ This are Hunter-Killer missiles for the Vulture: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/im ... llers1.jpg Here the Imperial Guard Tank Accessories sprue from GW: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws....1290051 The big missile in the middle is a Hunter-Killer Missile. So they may come in various sizes and appearances they are rules wise all the same. And yes no Krak-Missile justifies AT4+. Because of this i said that the Hunter should have a worse to-hit number than the Hyperios. Hunter: Hunter-Killer 60cm AT6+/AA6+ (or even 120cm if you compare it to the Epixc Vultures Hellstrike Missiles wich are Range: Unlimited in Wh40k too, or 90cm with the NetEA Tourney Mod) Hyperios: Twin Hyperios AA-Missile Launcher 45cm AT5+/AA5+ |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I don't see a reason why a missile taller than a man should have worse stats than a Krak missile. It's a failing of 40k that Hunter Killer missiles are kinda lame there. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
Hellstrike Missiles are kinda lame too. They are BIG but have only Strength 8 too with 72" range (asi discovered after a look in Codex ImperialGuard). But they are Ordnance so roll 2D6 instead of 1D6 for armour penetration and pick the highest die. Even more lame are Hellfury Missiles. 72", Strength 4, Ap5 and a 5" Blast. Thats abigge rblast and a marginally better Armourpiercing value than a Frag-Missile. Good against infantry but a Multiple Rocked Pod does exactly the same at 24" with Ap6 and it isn't a one-shot weapon as Epic made it. I thas a reason that only the Vylkyrie has Hellstrike Missiles (AT-weapons) which they can swapt for Multiple Rocked Pods (AP-weapons) while the Vendetta has Twin Lascannons (AT-weaspons)which it can swap for Hellfury Missiles (AP-weapons). So the Hellfury Missiles aren't in competition to the Multiple Rocked Pods. Bu tif you want an AT Skimmer you would use Twin-Lascannon Vendetta and if you want an AP Skimmer you would use a Valkyrie with Multiple Rocket Pods. All other options simply aren't effective. |
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| Author: | vytzka [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I think any kind of proposal that nerfs Hunter further is doomed from the start. |
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| Author: | mspaetauf [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I have to agree. I mean who would take a hunter with AA6+? You'd have to lower it to 25 points (because with one shot 6+ to hit it is useless), which is ridiculous. cheers, |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I could see: 45cm 2x AT6+/AA5+ As being good stats for a Hyperios ; Possibly AT5+. |
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| Author: | Honda [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter/Hyperios swap |
I think we should just let this rock down so the bugs that crawled out can get back to the cool, moist, darkness. This is fiddling for fiddling's sake. 
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