Tactical Command
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No Dreadnoughts?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=15741		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Fortis [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
I'm just a noob, so this may be unfounded but looking at the base list it sort of seems dreadnoughts are not particularly useful as attachments to any of the units they can attach to. They seem like more heavily armoured tactical squads with more AT capability or built in captain without the funky rules. Doesn't seem like too bad a deal for 50 points, but the fact that they slow down the mechanised formation or stop the terminators from deep striking just kills them for me. Sure they can work in garrisons, but even still they just don't seem that good.

Is there something I'm missing or are they just fairly pointless?

Why are they only attachments and not their own formation, they look like they'd be a fairly viable choice as 4 units for 200 or so. Is it just a fluff thing?

I'm just upset because the dreads are among my favourite epic models and I'd really like to use them in armies frequently, but if they will just gimp me hard then I'll be forced to steer away from them.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Close Combat Dreadnoughts are useful in Thunderhawks, Landing Craft and Drop Pods along with Assaut or Devestator Marines.
Author:  vytzka [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Well, NetERC suggests upping their armor save to 3+ which really does a lot to make them more attractive.

Adding them to garrisoning/thunderhawking devs or drop podding formations is not that bad an idea since while they are succeptible to AT fire they provide infantry with -1 to hit from shooting when in base contact (something you should always be trying to do). The CC/AC variant pretty good in assaults as well, while the "Hellfire" ML/TLLC pattern adds some nice AT punch to devastators.

One of my favorite thunderhawk loadouts is devastators with two dreadnoughts. You can always choose between air assaulting, simply disembarking and shooting, or garrisoning it before the battle starts.
Author:  Fortis [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
The thunderhawk/drop pod stuff makes a bit of sense. I'm using the ERC rules, which give it the 3+, I just didn't like the look of it slowing down my rhinos/being forced to garrison every game.

Just wondering if anyone knows why they weren't given their own formation? Is it just a fluff thing?
Author:  vytzka [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
4 CCW/AC dreads in a thunderhawk would make a _really_ good air assault formation for 200 points or thereabouts. Probably too good.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
While you may obviously house rule this, I believe it is generally accepted that Dreadnoughts will not be a formation in their own right only upgrades, so you cannot put four of them in a THawk (and anyway, they would be somewhat weaker than terminators, which provide the better assault stats, better armour and a character - usually Chaplain)

Their lack of mobility is not a problem, it just means that Dreadnoughts can either bolster an air-assault of some kind, or a garrison. One of the better garrisons is Devastators, 2x Dreds and a Hunter. With a Librarian this is 475, and dishes out lots of AP and AT firepower.

Opinion on the armour upgrade to 3+ is divided though personally I would really like to see it made 'official' to encourage the use of Dreads (which after all are one of the iconic units of the game). It would also be a small step to improving Marines
Author:  Mephiston [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Quote: (Fortis @ 02 Jun. 2009, 15:03 )

The thunderhawk/drop pod stuff makes a bit of sense. I'm using the ERC rules, which give it the 3+, I just didn't like the look of it slowing down my rhinos/being forced to garrison every game.

Just wondering if anyone knows why they weren't given their own formation? Is it just a fluff thing?

Two + years of debate probably ended in a 60%/40% split on the side of no formation.  :sigh:

Lots of reasons for both points of view have been discussed many times.
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
I'd like to see the 4 dreadnought formation tried, though 200 points may well be too cheap if it is thunderhawked in. Is it in any current lists?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Iron Hands would seem to be a good place for it.
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Are there any fully ground-pounding marine lists with no air transports or drop pods?
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
In Apocalypyse ther is an "Ancients Assault Force" datasheet wich consists of 3+ Dreadnoughts.
Author:  zombocom [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Quote: (Hena @ 02 Jun. 2009, 16:24 )

Scions is nearly that  :whistle: . :))

(Thunderhawk Transport and Landing Craft breaks it a bit, but otherwise.)

Yeah, I know, but even having those options makes pricing a dreadnaught formation tricky, since it's worth so much more if transported. If there was a marine list with no tranport/drop pods at all it'd fit in nicely.
Author:  vytzka [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  No Dreadnoughts?
Quote: (Ginger @ 02 Jun. 2009, 17:37 )

While you may obviously house rule this, I believe it is generally accepted that Dreadnoughts will not be a formation in their own right only upgrades, so you cannot put four of them in a THawk (and anyway, they would be somewhat weaker than terminators, which provide the better assault stats, better armour and a character - usually Chaplain)

I was speaking hypothetically. I dare to say that four dreadnoughts might well give better value for the points in air assaults than four stands of terminators - 4 normal and 4 MW attacks at 4+ vs 3+, only one AC shot vs two but 200 points (or so) vs 350. Even with official 4+ save vs 4+ RA it's a bargain, and 3+ is a lot closer unless the enemy is packing MWs.

Hasn't TRC tried a dread formation for his Imperial Fists?
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