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Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:31 am 
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For your pleasure BlackLegion and I present the following army list for the Salamanders Chapter of Space Marines. Incorporating many novel ideas, Multi Meltas, Heavy Flamers, Land Raider variants and no new special rules, I feel it is almost ready to become official now. To see the proposed timetable of development and hopefully help with some playtesting yourselves download the file below. It contains the army list, new units, designers notes and FAQ as well as the plans for what the final article will display. Discussion about the last couple of bits can be found here
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....81;st=0

Edit - as some people were confused I am updating the file below to the current version which is I think at most two iterations from being finished (and this concerns just 1 or maybe 2 units).




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:15 am 
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Plus I wonder if those Fire of Noctune and Bolter and Chainsword people would like to comment ont he fluff/write some for the units?


I have posted a link on Fires of Nocturne :)
http://forum.thefireofnocturne.com/index.p....1037193

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Heavens To Betsy
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:03 pm 
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Would someone be able to post this as a normal PDF or Word document? I'm having trouble downloading the compressed data.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Another note on format - for some reason, the A4 page formatting is causing problems.  I regularly send documents back and forth with institutions in Europe and the A4-letter conversion is usually seamless.  I don't know if you went in and explicitly set something regarding page format but every time I try to print this it gives me a paper size error.

==

I assume you probably saw them, but I posted comments on the SG boards.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:04 pm 
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In Word:
http://s10.quicksharing.com/v....oc.html

As PDF:
http://s10.quicksharing.com/v....df.html

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:57 pm 
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Hmm, no idea whats going on there, prints fine for me here. Maybe its these accursed UN PC's?

As for posts on one formum and not the other wonder if its best BL for US to put all responses to questions on the SG forum - after all its a direct link to the thread and easy enough for Tac-Com members to look at. Would mean less chance of giving contradictory replies.

Certainly bat-reps though i will be putting on here, just to make use of the image service.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:02 pm 
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Agreed :)
And perhabs you should have a look on the FiresOfNocturne forums. Perhabs you can something say too :)




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:11 am 
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Hopefully i will be able to have a game with the new list at the weekend :)

My DarkAngels list will be tested too. Perhabs against Orks.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:36 am 
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Just perused this list guys. Looks very pretty :D

However, are the points increases to some units really justified? Thunderhawk, Landing Craft, to name a couple? What's the rationale behind bumping them up?

Also, with the Prometheus perhaps a 15cm combined assault  rule instead of "anywhere on the battlefield" approach? It could be the mirror of the Tau Co-ordinated fire rule?? Or are you aiming to be able to do combined air assault too? And is this the reason for bumping up the air assault unit points?
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:29 am 
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That should be in the 'worries/designers notes' section.

In essence it is in response to how Epic and Astartes plays. The shorter the range and more powerful the attack the more valuable air transport. Now the list has to be multi dimensional (perhaps unlike the core one :) ) so that means that both ground transport options and air options have to be equal in end result (dead enemies) and not one intrinsically better than the other as is currently the case.
SO to beef up ground options the list has limited numbers of heavy transports (Land Raiders/Crusaders) available to formations though though a bit slower and more expensive mean that if you really have to insert the ground troops by van you can. They have the power to operate effectively once in 15cm range and now a fair chance of getting there.
BUT the more effective 15cm payload means the value of air assault increases far more. 15cm for a ground unit is a hindrance, 15cm for an air unit is irrelavent as you will be in range. So great effectiveness is controled by greater cost. Take for example Devs in a Landing Craft. Currently you get three lots. Salamanders reinforced devs are two lots - so stronger formations but less activations which is less of an issue for this style of deployment. But Firepower wise the cargo has instead of 24 AP5+/AT6+ shots 16 AP5+/AT6+ and 8 MW5+. That to my mind is more firepower.

Other combos like MM dread + MM Devs in a Thunderhawk are possible.

So to balance it all and to play on the safe side since becoming cheaper is better for the playtestor experience than become more expensive you have the increase in aircraft cost above what is currently recomended for Marines.

I haven't had a game with these chaps sadly for over 2 months now, but they seemed alright the half dozen times they have had outings at up to 3000 points level.

Re Prometheus it remains any unit on the table - though a combined air assault is interesting and despite tying up a fair few points I tremble to think what fun could be have.

In messing around with the rule the concensus was why not try unlimited? It is far more restrictive than the Co-ord fire rule which is there to make up for having the advantage of lots of small activations (sorry was a joke a friend said in an email) in that the formations must still end their engage moves in unit coherency. This does put a natural limit on the range. At most edit finish later.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:43 am 
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Well clearly I never did :)

Anyway, anyone else tried these things while I have been away? BL has been short of time/opponents and their can't be just two salamander fans in existence!

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:09 pm 
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There MUST be more :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:42 pm 
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I have a game! At spomewhat short notice due to a re-arranged meeting schedule by Niel. I've thrown together the following and we are getting down to it now. Or rether I am getting down to writing unit names on bits of card :(

375 Landing Craft
250 Devestators
125 Salamander Devestators
100 Crusader
050 Librarian
000 Rhino
250 Devestators
125 Salamander Devestators
050 Librarian
000 3 Rhinos
300 Tactical (BTS)
150 Promethius
075 Supreme Commander
025 Razorback (AP)
000 2 Rhinos
275 Predators - Annihilator
200 Landspeeders
150 Assault
050 Chaplain
150 Scouts
025 Razorback (AP)
000 2 Rhinos
275 Warhound

In essence the plan ™ is to take out most of the flak with the Warhound and preds, zap the enemy BTS with the Landing Craft of Doom, whilst praying to the dark gods that any remaining flak doesn't shoot it down (a 1 in 24 chance for every hit I suffer!). The infantry will meanwhile attack an objective. Land Speeders do whatever, whilst the scouts harass away happily. I hope the devs lose an infantry stand as well, as currently it lacks enough transport!

Sadly the BTS is the same as the SC formation :(

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:42 am 
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Yay Salamander battlereport on the way :D

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