First of all hello, I'm new both here and to Epic Armageddon

After playing a few introductory games with my friend who's the only other Epic player so far (and as new as me) I'm trying to make a semi-permanent list that I could focus playing with and know what to paint first as I've collected a lot of stuff off ebay - but am a notoriously slow painter. Since I'm creating a Flesh Tearers army, I'm using Blood Angels list, specifically the 2.02 revision of it which as far as I understand is the latest one.

The list looks like this:

Grunts (39%)

Terminator detachment + Supreme Commander @ 450
Tactical detachment + 2 Predators Destructors @ 425
Tactical detachment @ 300

Fast Attack (36%)

Death Company x4 @ 325
Assault detachment + 2 Bikes @ 275
Assault detachment + 2 Bikes @ 275
Bike detachment (all Bikes) @ 200

Support (25%)

Devastator detachment + 2 dreadnoughts (PF/AC) @ 350
Thunderhawk gunship @ 200
Thunderhawk gunship @ 200

TOTAL: 3000

Now what I understand that I lack is AA capability but I don't think my friend has any aircraft in either of his armies so Hunters would be kind of a waste and I don't have any models either so will probably have to convert them. I figure I could probably do with a landed Thunderhawk in a pinch for light AA anyway.

Speaking of Thunderhawks I have 2 more (all of them old school shoeboxes that I happen to really love the look of) so I could add more but again don't want to cheese out too much before my friend learns to build a more balanced army too.

I'm also going to want to add a Warlord titan once my Imperator model gets here ^_^ Is it a good idea to use it at 3000 points or should I build a 4000 point army for that?

Yes, I'm primarily thinking of transporting Terminators and Devastators, though I'm leaving myself the option of garrisoning (or Teleporting in case of Terminators) them instead.

I haven't considered usage of Imperial Navy aircraft much because of fluff reasons (as the Flesh Tearers are prone to killing and eating their allies subject to a recent campaign of baseless smearing and mischaracterization in liberal Imperial media) but since fighter pilots, much like Titan crews, are somewhat more capable of staying out of the way of Marines during combat I will consider it, thanks for advice!

Fluff is also the reason for the assault focus of the list but I might drop the bikes and one assault squad to add a little ranged support (Whirlwinds maybe?) and two Thunderbolts.

2 Years ago i thought up a modification of the Blood Angels army list to represent the Flesh Tearers based on their Index Astartes article.

Here it is:

The idea came while i was reading the IndexAstartes article featuring the FleshTearers Chapter.

The FleshTearers are a sucessor chapter from the BloodAngels, so modifying the BA armylist wasvery easy:

1. The DeathCompany starts 2 units strong and therefore costs 175 + 75pts for every additional unit or you can pay +100pts and add a DeathCompany Dreadnought instead of the additional DC unit.

2. Add Death Company Dreadnoughts as upgrade for the DeathCompany. Same as Furioso Dreadnought but with Fearless and Invulnerable Save for 100pts. See 1.

3. You can only add 1 Dreadnought as Detachment upgrade instead of 1-2.

4. Only 1 Vehicle can be added with the HeavySupport upgrade instead of 1-2.

5. Only 1 Terminator Detachment can have the Land Raider upgrade.

6. If you buy the Whirlwind Detachment (still a 0-1 choice) you can add all Whirlwinds together forming the Whirlwind Detachment or you can add 1 or all Whirlwinds as upgrades to different Detachments. No Detachment can have more than 3 Whirlwinds.

The reasons behind the changes:

From Index Astartes:
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Limited Resources: A Flesh Tearers forces tend to have little in the way of armoured vehicles, only one tank (Predator, Whirlwind, Vindicator or Land Raider) may be chosen for each detachment. You are, however, unlimited in the number of Rhinos and Razorbacks you may choose to take.

The Call of the Black Rage: Flesh Tearers suffer from the genetic defect of the Black Rage even more so than the other Blood Angels successor Chapters.

Death Company Dreadnoughts: There are many renowned heroes within the ranks of the Flesh Tearers, and whilst the Sanguinary Priests have had some successes in restraining the Black Rage of the ancient warriors entombed within the Dreadnought hulls, it is inevitable that, sooner or later, they will succumb to Sanguinius' Pain.
Only one Dreadnought or Furioso Dreadnought (one in total not one of each) may be taken within a Flesh Tearers army. However, you may take as many Death Company Dreadnoughts as you wish, within the normal limitations of the Force Organisation chart and the points value of the army.
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I'm dropping the bike squadron and adding vindicators to both tactical detachments as I've got the models converted and want to use them.



BL: that's an interesting post and something I've been wondering about myself (limiting Heavy Support to one vehicle per detachment is right out of my head ). DC Dreadnoughts need to be cheaper, though, as they're much slower than regular Death Company models - or DC needs to be allowed to ride in thunderhawks which to the best of my understanding it's currently not.

Also Razorbacks need to be made cheaper to compensate for loss of firepower.

All in all I don't think Flesh Tearers need a separate codex though.

Fair enough on both counts (nice to hear that Razorbacks are good for one). As for Thunderhawks I noticed that the datasheet in the rulebook lists types of units it can transport and - surprise surprise - doesn't include Death Company there, while Blood Angels armylist doesn't address the issue either. Of course I agree that this is not very logical but who knows.

I also noticed that most Marine lists (including those that you linked) seem to include gobs of Warhounds. Would a Warlord be an acceptable substitute or is that too big of a chunk at 3000 points?