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Blood Angels
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:16 pm 
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I had a go at updating the Blood Angels army list with the NetERC updates as well as some updates based on what's been happening with 40k:

Blood Angels 2.02

Any comments?




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Mephiston
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:25 pm 
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I've been thinking of doing something similar.

I'd like to increase the size of the assault to 6 for 250 as they should be a common choice for blood angels. It may be worth placing some limit on the number of Tacs/Devs based on assault?

Is it also worth taking a stab at making the Death Company selection match 40K by using the number of Tac, Dev, Ass and Term formations taken? Not one per formation but some division based on the total.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Did you make the Land Speeder SHadow up? SOfar i know the new Land Speeder is called Land Speeder Storm. Picture of it shows it armed with a Heavy Bolter.
Why the restrictions on the Whirlwinds?

For Crusaders and Redeemer. I guess this should beleft to Chapters which are eiterh famous for inventing the particular tank or are known to have a high degree of armour and/or technology.

So i would leave the Crusader to the Black Templars and the Redeemer to the Salamanders (but i can see how the Redeemer fits the Blood Angels because of the Baal Predator)

Oh and the Land Speeder Shadow should be a Skimmer an dnot a Skinner ;)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:44 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Aug. 2008, 15:39 )

Did you make the Land Speeder SHadow up? SOfar i know the new Land Speeder is called Land Speeder Storm. Picture of it shows it armed with a Heavy Bolter.

I keep hearing both shadow and storm linked with the new land speeder.

It looks like it's armed with a Storm Bolter to me, though I may be wrong...

Why the restrictions on the Whirlwinds?


It was in the original SG test list, and Hena wanted it kept.

Oh and the Land Speeder Shadow should be a Skimmer an dnot a Skinner ;)

Fixed.

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Dave
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Are all those NetERC changes going through? I had though Hena wasn't doing the scout sniper change nor the land speeder tornado price change?

During  assault  resolution,  a  formation  does  not  gain  the +1  bonus  for  outnumbering  a Death Company formation. Note that they still receive the +1 for doubling the formation, if it applies.


To be clear, I think it should be "an enemy formation".

I think the note in the sniper upgrade is unneeded, isn't it? I thought that the Sniper ability on a unit doesn't allow it to use the ability in an assault anyway. As the shooting attack is the only thing it can apply to I don't think we need the note there.

The Baal Predators twin linked assault cannons should be range of 30cm. Also why the extra attacks for the 2x Heavy Flamers in FF? That's 3 FF attacks at 4! I think FF ignore cover is fine.

Hena is going with RA Dreads, Furiso needs RA in the notes. I forget whether they were 4+ or 5+ though.

Why the extra attack for the Crusaders Multi-melta? Also, Frag Launchers don't really need to be noted.

The Redeemers flamers just give extra attacks? No ignore cover?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 06 Aug. 2008, 16:09 )

Are all those NetERC changes going through? I had though Hena wasn't doing the scout sniper change nor the land speeder tornado price change?

I'm not sure there as to whether I should be following the long or short term plan.

During  assault  resolution,  a  formation  does  not  gain  the +1  bonus  for  outnumbering  a Death Company formation. Note that they still receive the +1 for doubling the formation, if it applies.


To be clear, I think it should be "an enemy formation".


Seems sensible to me.


I think the note in the sniper upgrade is unneeded, isn't it? I thought that the Sniper ability on a unit doesn't allow it to use the ability in an assault anyway. As the shooting attack is the only thing it can apply to I don't think we need the note there.

It was just to avoid confusion really.

The Baal Predators twin linked assault cannons should be range of 30cm. Also why the extra attacks for the 2x Heavy Flamers in FF? That's 3 FF attacks at 4! I think FF ignore cover is fine.

Those are the stats it had in the experimental test list.

I'm not a great fan of Ignore Cover FF attacks... how are they allocated? If the defending player gets to allocate them, that allows certain gamey tricks.


Hena is going with 4+ RA Dreads, Furiso needs RA in the notes.

Okay...

Why the extra attack for the Crusaders Multi-melta? Also, Frag Launchers don't really need to be noted.

Because otherwise it'd have to have a 3+ FF MW attack. :)

Frag launchers are there just to remind people why it has a CC rating of 5+ instead of 6+ like any other tank.

The Redeemers flamers just give extra attacks? No ignore cover?

Again, I'm not keen on FF ignore cover because you end up with gamey issues when other FF attacks are being used at the same time.

I don't think any unit in the core rulebooks have FF Ignore Cover, even stuff like Hellhounds where you'd expect it.

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Justiniel
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Thanks E&C.
I hope to try out this list sometime soon (if Daemonkin is amenable) I guess you would appreciate feedback?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Quote: (Justiniel @ 06 Aug. 2008, 16:19 )

Thanks E&C.
I hope to try out this list sometime soon (if Daemonkin is amenable) I guess you would appreciate feedback?

Aye that'd be awesome!

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Salamanders Terminators and Predator Incinerators have FF IC Attacks. For now this caused no problems in game.

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Dave
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Because otherwise it'd have to have a 3+ FF MW attack. :)


OK, you lost me with that one. The Crusader has 5+ FF, is it supposed to be 3+? Anyway, Multi-Melta gives the one base CC attack MW.  The EA +1 from the Hurricane bolters just adds another extra attack, no MW.

Again, I'm not keen on FF ignore cover because you end up with gamey issues when other FF attacks are being used at the same time.

I don't see how they're overly gamey.  Just roll the IC hits seperately, and if the defenders get cover saves just make sure the IC hits are deducted from those getting cover saves and roll saves as normal.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:04 pm 
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I agree with all the point changes.

I like the Heavy Support change.  That should make fine tuning costs much easier.

I would skip the LR variants for style reasons.  In general, I think the force as a whole should be infantry-oriented and their vehicles should stay focused on Rhino chassis due to the BA special vehicle options for them.  Even if the LR variants are rewritten to be more common in most chapters, this is a stylistic army list and doesn't necessarily need to include the option.

The Speeder variant will just have to wait until we know something.

Also, I have this vague memory that BA have some weird deal with their scouts - limited Scouts and the force selection in 40K limits them to 0-1 or something.  Am I confusing them with something another chapter?  If not, should they be restricted in the list somehow?

0-1 Whirlwinds per 3000 points is practically no restriction at all.  I've never seen a SM army with more than one.  In fact, I rarely see the first one until it's over 3000 points.  I'd say raise the point ratio or drop it altogether.

Razorbacks should have a limit of the max used to transport the formation, rather than "any number".  A Dev formation with 10 Razorbacks for 500 points is cheesy, but you know someone would throw it down (or 20 of them for 750).

Finally, it's not a huge deal, but I dislike the mandatory Death Company.  The background says the DC only manifests under very specific circumstances (otherwise it wouldn't be a semi-secret chapter shame).  In this one respect I'd like to favor a bit of flexibility over the focused style of a variant list.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:16 pm 
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In the last Codex (the thin-one not the current PDF-one) Blood Angels could have only 0-1 Scout Squad from Codex Space Marines but any number of Blood Angels Scout Squads.

Blood Angels Scout Squads didn't have acsess to Heavy Weapons or Sniper Rifles.
Apart from this they where the same.

Blood Angels Scouts in the PDF-Codex now have acsess to Sniper Rifles and Heavy Weapons as any other Codex Chapter.

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Dave
 Post subject: Blood Angels
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Whoops, knew it was changing due to popular demand, just thought is was RA.

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