I'd appreciate any thoughts on the following formation, for a scenario I'm writing.

Transported Assault Marines
Identical to standard assault marines (so four stands, same stats, access to Commander and Vindicator upgrades etc), but without the jump pack rule and with access to Space Marine Transport instead. This would give them access to Rhinos/Drop Pods etc., and the ability to garrison.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on such a formation :
a) Appearing alongside the standard Assault Marine formation (i.e. access to both in the army list).
b) Replacing the standard Assault Marine formation (i.e. no access to jump-packs full stop).

Any subtle unbalancing consequences you can think of? What would be a fair price for such a formation?

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

As its for a scenario, I have no problem with you going either way and will be interested in what you write.

I've used them in the Raven Guard list, alongside jump pack marines. 6 for 225.

RG list and discussion is in this thread.

I've played against the Raven Guard list five or so times so far, and those foot-slogging assault marines seem fine.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm completely happy with option a and being able to freely choose them and normal ones in games with the standard marine lists at 4 for 175. I can't see any balance issues and think jump-packed ones are probably slightly better. I've been toying for a while about modelling up a formation without jump-packs myself.

Thanks for the input so far. Nealhunt, I'm assuming the 'Tactical Assault' formation is the relevant one here. Cool list, by the way! I only saw a brief mention of the Tactical Assault marines in the discussion thread, which indicates they're fairly well-accepted and don't rock the boat too much – correct?

Is the points cost predicated on its position within the Raven Guard modus operandi? To put it another way, would you feel happy playing with/against the same formation at the same cost if it were an option in the standard Codex Marine list?

How would you price the same formation if it were four stands strong, rather than six, and had access only to Commander and Vindicator upgrades? Would 175pts sound fair?

+++EDIT+++


So for 175pts, and available alongside assault marines with jump packs, do you think you'd ever take them?

How would you price them competitively in a list that had no access to the Jump Pack type? Less, or more?

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

They should be 4 strong, because that's how many assault marines a space marine battle company has. They may have extra supporting marines from other companies, but these should be their own formation. Raven Guard could possibly have more Jumped Packed Assault Marines though, since winged jump-packed assaults are their chapter's theme.

I think I'd definitely take them yes; slightly less often than Jump Packed ones perhaps, but only slightly. It'd depend what I fancy and what fits with what else I'm using and how I want to run them from the list. I would price them exactly the same and I don't think any list should not have access to Jump Packed Assault Marines - all chapter's use them and it's the default option. I've just had a look at the current W40k codex and it allows jump-pack-less Assault Marines to use Rhinos, Drop Pods and Land Raiders, but not Razorbacks - ideally the limitations should be the same in Epic.

If you are going to give them access to drop pods avoid making them formations of 4. You'd end up allowing quite a powerful drop army. 5 formations of them dropping on turn 1 against corner deployment equals an awful lot a deathwind shots.

If that's a problem just charge the 4 strong formation + 25 points for drop-pods.

The Blood Claws in the Space Wolves list are similar to Neal's Raven Guard assault troops. 6 for 225 (although the BCs are initiative 2 and FF6+). So far they haven't been a problem when I've used them. The lack of mobility (after the loss of transports) hampers them a bit but it's not a major problem.

Is there areason why you're leaving them at 4 units?

As GlynG says, because that's how many are in a Codex Battle Company.

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

Hey,

Have you played with this formation yet? I see the other larger formations as workink due to size, but the independant formation of 4 stands is a little small. How have you looked at costing the transport if any? I have seen one list where there is a demi company adding 2 stands to tacs. Have you thought to do something similar add the 4 stands in two Rhinos to a Tac det?

Just thoughts
Aaron

On the contrary, isn't the 4 strong + 2 vehicle formation average or big? With the transports it's 2 larger than a standard sized Assault or Terminator formation and the same size as a Scout formation and it's only a Tactical formation that is larger.

Rhinos would be free and Assault Marines aren't allowed to use Razorbacks but Land Raiders would be 75 as usual. A 250 point formation including a Land Raider could be useful, though the Land Raider could be suppressed relatively easily. 325 including a Hunter and Land Raider could be nice too.

I really dislike the idea of adding them on to a Tactical formation; it seems unnecessary and you'd end up with a huge incredibly hard to break formation and marines should be agile tactically not hoarded together.

I'm hoping to playtest them next week. Currently, I'm simply swapping jump packs for the Space Marine transport rules, with all prices and options (i.e. commander, Vindicator etc) remaining the same.

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC