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Salamanders batrep

 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:43 am 
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This game was most noticeable for featuring some (admittedly wrong scale) buildings made by my daughter. I am currently wondering what I can use to get her mass producing scenery for me. Hopefully without the included Barbie.

Anyway, business done there was time for one more game before Niel heads off to Thailand. Probably my last game for a month at least :( I have also endangered my life by doing this and not doing the 'go to school for reading evening followed by official dinner for UN staff and spouses (I am the spouse when it comes to WFP)'. Will it be worth it? :)

I did have a camera but to be frank reckon these drawings knocked off on the tablet pc are far superior at sowing what is going on than a load of grey and brown pieces of card fighting over different colour paper and a giant polystyrene building with a barbie on it (well maybe I will photograph that separately if people want to see it :) ).

Salamanders
Hmm, FF army of Doom? Lets go all the way with Devs and a landing craft! Some Warhounds to suppress flak and then some cheaper formations to support the two core.

In essence the plan ™ is to take out most of the flak with the Warhounds, zap the enemy BTS with the Landing Craft of Doom, whilst praying to the dark gods that any remaining flak doesn't shoot it down (a 1 in 24 chance for every hit I suffer!). The infantry will meanwhile attack an objective. Land Speeders do whatever, whilst the scouts harass away happily. List changed a bit once I realised I had forgotten my thunderbolts and flak (so no crusader this time)!

Sadly the BTS is the same as the SC formation :( I considered putting the SC in the Prometheus, but reckoned that with RA if I need the invulnerable save

375 Landing Craft
250 Devastators
125 Salamander Devastators
050 Librarian
000 3 Rhinos
250 Devastators
125 Salamander Devastators
050 Chaplain
000 3 Rhinos
300 Tactical (BTS)
150 Prometheus
075 Supreme Commander
025 Razorback (AP)
000 2 Rhinos
275 Predators - Annihilators
200 Landspeeders
150 Scouts
025 Razorback (AP)
000 2 Rhinos
150 Assault
150 Thunderbolts
275 Warhound

'Guard
Same card board counters used as for last game (in the Tau forum) - speed was of the essence!

650 Arty - Basilisks
050 Hydra
500 Regimental
050 Hydra
500 Shadowswords
050 Hydra
250 Infantry
100 Fire Support
250 Infantry
100 Fire Support
250 Manticores
150 Hydra
100 Sentinels


Deployment
As seen
All garrisons on overwatch.

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:49 am 
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Turn 1 - Guard!
Short debate followed. We know I want the BTS. So should the basilisks set overwatch or fire while they can? 9 AP5+ and 9 AP4+/AT4+ shots would basically mean I couldn't air assault them. But I would probably then go for the Shadowswords (would I?) as the Hydra would be -2 to hit (doubling, cover). Also there are a lot of units around there, could even half my army crack the nut without suffering to much?
Ultimately we went with the open fire option, and then mulled targets! The Tacticals were embarked and in cover, the warhound shielded. Only the preds were in the open. Ultimately the Tacticals were the lucky ones, losing a rhino and a marine inside. The manticores followed up, knocking out the razor and its infantry. Lesser men would run, the marines just cursed lots.
What to do, I wanted to keep them bottled up and not have use the air assault yet. Sure I could take all but the fearless shadowsword probably, but I really wanted the BTS. Plus I didn't want to lose any men :)
So preds doubled up passing their dangerous terrain tests and had a go at the Hydra. I didn't expect much but got a result with a fantastic round of fire and (hydra only have 6+ saves you know) one dead Hydra. Yo.
Followed up with the Land Speeders, losing one to dangerous terrain and shot at the basilisks to no effect, placing the SC in the scouts zoc.
Shadowswords set overwatch.
Assault tried to trigger it with no joy, went and joined scouts.
Sentinels had no luck with the speeders.
Playing for time the thunderbolts shot up the Infantry to no effect.
The board was now quite complex, especially thanks to all the scouts!
The infantry doubled and just managed to see a couple of preds, but caused no damage.
The warhound simply could go anywhere safe, so plunged into the forest, I think losing a void shield to overwatch fire but doing some damage back.
The SC finally moved (re-roll I think needed), engaging the Landspeeders. Lost two infantry, but the a storm of supporting fire wiped the survivors out. We discussed them doubling round to fill the hole but it was rejected as not guarantying the land speeder kill.
Scouts seceded in triggering the Shadowsword overwatch, losing two rhinos and the razorback.
I then change my mind about where the tacs are going (making the scout sacrifice meaningless - how sad).
Tacs instead march, remaining mounted and would have been safe to whole way.
With no guts, no glory the landing craft screams in. The sentinels block one landing zone so I aim for the middle. 3 Hydra manage to get a hit past the armour, the crit dice is rolled and.... I'm dead.
This pretty much we reckon ends the game. So using our powers of time management we pretend that no crit was rolled and play continues :) Devs pour out and the whole formation generates 12 3+, 6 6+, 1 MW3+, 4 MW4+ attacks, killing 5 outright and losing 2 rhinos to return shots. Not as stunning as I had hoped for, but at least the commissar went down. A good assault roll later and the BTS was no more.
Hydra fail to rally.

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:51 am 
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Turn 2 - Marines
Shoot the manticores? Assault either infantry? Go for the SC? SO many options I wish I was Eldar!
Ultimately I am torn by indecision and do stuff.
The Tacs move up and scythe through the infantry, killing 3 (crossfire as well).
The Devs then wipe out the manticores in an assault, killing a hydra with a BM.
The Guard are equally baffled - go for unactivated units or the BTS? THe infantry in the woods are pinned but getting their cover saves, equally are in the scouts ZoC. Ultimately the SC engages the tacs, only to see a plucky Rhino counter charge into the infantry. I was going to win or lose big! Considering I faced 31 5+ attacks and 4 4+ the latter was most likely. But I gave good account with the Prometheus only going down to assault resolution!
The shadowswords stopped being coy at this point and went and killed the warhound, using a re-roll.
The devs advanced, shooting up more of the infantry in the crossfire and breaking the formation.
Scouts can see no future and fail to activate, firing into the infantry.
Infatry sustains, wiping out the scouts.
Preds advance and crossfire the Shadowswords, doing a couple of points of damage to the commissar tank.
Sentinels fail to activate and move.
Landing craft fails to activate.
Thunderbolts hit the infantry.
To assault with the assault marines or not? No support anymore. The guard in front have to go somehow. Wait till next turn and get some support? Hmm, ultimately try to FF the broken infantry. With pred support it is all going well until an atrocious assault roll wipes out the marines!

Infantry fails to rally.

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:53 am 
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Turn 3 - Marines
Devs sustain into the SC, destroying its vehicles.
Preds fail and shoot SH in a crossfire, killing the commissar and Hydra.
Shadowswords rally with re-roll.
Landing craft assaults SC, with dev support. Close run thing, sc breaks.
Hydra shoots devs.
Thunderbolts strafe SC.
Infantry shoots preds.
Devs spread out in an arc around the blitz, killing the Hydra.
Sentinels move out contesting objective and blowing up a rhino.

Infantry fails to rally.
Preds might have failed.

2-2

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:55 am 
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Turn 4 - marines, done at breakneck speed as we really should be packing up!
Devestators engage sentinels with a couple of stands. They counter charge into the other dev formation but to no avail and are wiped out.
Infantry manoeuvre to kill preds but fail to scratch armour.
Landing craft crossfire?s the shadowswords, doing a spot of damage and suppressing a tank.
SC goes and breaks Preds.
Thunderbolts break SC
Shadowswords kill landing craft.
Devs fail to damage shadowswords.

Predators fail to rally
Infantry fail to rally.

3-2, marines win

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:55 am 
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Despite the hammer blow of the LandsngCraft this was a very close battle.

Any comments from you?

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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:45 pm 
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Ok I will get my daughter to pose with her Barbie building tomorrow. Currently we are making a house for Barbie out of paper mache :)

Hmm, random thoughts. Niel reckoned it was alright, he has played Epic a bit, largely with me and thought he two sides pretty balanced.

I think after that bit of bad luck turn one with the landing craft I became very risk adverse.

Taking the landing craft turn 4, I should have assaulted. Only one tank would have fought me, I would be on +1 to start with and rolling 4 dice at 3+ compared to 3 at 5+. The odds I feel would have been with me and the objective mine for a 3-1 win.

Likewise indecisive turn 2. Oh and simply didn't occur to me the preds would fail to rally or that the sc would come and shoot them.

The stand off in the woods was a bit weird. I couldn't get enough firepower to support jumping the infantry in cover and they weren't to happy about assaulting me as the cover meant I would be in counter-charge range. Ironically a commander in there would have been great as opposed to the Prometheus!

Talking of the Prom. It is rather hard to use. At first i thought no problem, then i realised due to the cost it will normally be in the BTS. I had many great ideas, all scuppered when i realised it had to be in coherency of the other two formations after the move. If we all keep failing to use it - especially in this list which could lack the very fast moving options available to other marines - coming down by 25 points wouldn't hurt. Ideally i would attach it to something fast, but with the rhinos habit of dying that only leaves assault marines and they are hardly the right choice. Maybe in a pred formation with a commander? Have to turn to armoured marines to see how they are faring really for feedback there.

Thoughts on list. This is the nth iteration for the battle. I realised a very key thing - every single cheap formation is in the 1/3 limit. Now I realise that this is the intent, but it made it the hardest army list I have ever picked.

Especially for flak! Its hard for marines anywhere but in this list where to fit it in? Mayhaps have to replace thunderbolts with lightning - reduce the ground attack ability for intercept. Of course this increases the pressure on the 1/3 restriction

MM upgrades. I will try 'em next time with a crusader or two as mech FF formations. Trouble is they will cost something rotten (600 points or so for a hunter, crusader, 2 rhinos, leader, dev and upgrade, only ten stands).
It wouldn't surprise me if this is a very tough formation to pull off, maybe tacs would be better. Anyway it could be after some more testing the upgrade price drops as unless you can pin the enemy in place - but of course not to close as these buggers aren't as good in CC - you aren't going to get your moneys worth.

The landing craft load wasn't as devastating as I thought. In the past I've had a couple of chaplains and a librarian in there, backed up with a formation of vindicators (now that's pricy!) or just a bunch of razorbacks. Without the chaplains it wasn't as easy and obviously CC is out. I guess I could try loading it up with devs and dreds, some supporting armour, dropping that in. Cheaper I think, prob run some numbers to see how it would fare.


Overall though I think it is looking promising. The 1/3 limit means there are no no-brainer support choices for the army (3 warhounds plus fast assault options spring to mind). The formations are limited, the tech could be neat. I think with the possible exception at looking at air defence I would only expect to see points change, nothing else, unless other players uncover some flaw I am just not seeing!

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
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 Post subject: Salamanders batrep
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:41 am 
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I only used air-assaults with Thunderhwaks packed with Devastators, Salamander Devastators, and Dreadnoughts. They are good, but not overpowered.
I guessed with a Landing Craft (i don't own the model yet) it would be more punch but not that overly devastating you feared. And the battlerepord over there showed that the LC isn't overpowered.

But i whish someone else would try out the list than us two who developed it. Other might see flaws more obvioulsy than we.





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