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The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
Allow it. 25%  25%  [ 12 ]
Don't allow it. 71%  71%  [ 34 ]
I don't feel I'm informed enough to vote on this topic. 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 48

The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:47 pm 
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In a tournament situation, should a Marine player be able to see his enemy's army / army list, and then decide whether to deploy his marines in rhinos or drop pods?

Or should he have to pick ahead of the game (When he writes the army list) whether he's going to use drop pods or rhinos?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:48 pm 
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I think it's beardy as hades, so I voted 'don't allow it'.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:50 pm 
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I also voted "don't allow."

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Ginger
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:43 pm 
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I'm for allowing the Marines to make this choice, having actually tried it in tournament conditions, with the agreement of the umpire and my opponents, none of whom found it in the least "beardy".

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Moscovian
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:52 pm 
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You had very polite opponents then. :)  Seriously, what are they going to say, "Get packin'"?  Rarely do you get an Epic player who shows up at a tournament with the intention of disqualifying their opponent and winning by default.  And even the two mods (Neal for the swap LordI against) both agreed that the current rules don't allow it as written. As I see it the swap requires an overt change of the rules and I'd oppose them.

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Sytoru
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Just to clarify my "no" vote. I see no support for it with the current rules but wouldn't be opposed to it becoming an explicitly stated option as part of an SM review.

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Ginger
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:18 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Oct. 17 2007,17:52)
QUOTE
You had very polite opponents then. :) ?Seriously, what are they going to say, "Get packin'"? ?Rarely do you get an Epic player who shows up at a tournament with the intention of disqualifying their opponent and winning by default. ?And even the two mods (Neal for the swap LordI against) both agreed that the current rules don't allow it as written. As I see it the swap requires an overt change of the rules and I'd oppose them.

On the contrary, most of us had a quick discusion before the start of the competition and there were several people opposed to this tactic. However, they agreed to try it to see the effect, and post tournament, those originally opposed all seem to have changed their minds in favour of this.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:43 pm 
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Specifically in a tournament situation...

I continue to view this as a 'change in the list of a zero point formation', and therefore voted no. I would put this as one step away from changing the character in a formation, since they are all the same points value.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:44 pm 
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Well, I am guessing we'll have to agree to disagree.  If you had won the games I am guessing that they might not have been as receptive. And the mere fact that you asked the ref and the players beforehand tells me that you knew it could be construed as an underhanded maneuver.  Personally I'd save this type of stuff for the people who I play with most frequently (so I don't get a six-sided die ricochetting off my forehead from across the table) and keep the contraversial things out of the tournaments.   But as I mentioned in the other thread, it was clever.  Wrong, but clever.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:49 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 17 2007,16:43)
QUOTE
Specifically in a tournament situation...

I continue to view this as a 'change in the list of a zero point formation', and therefore voted no. I would put this as one step away from changing the character in a formation, since they are all the same points value.

You could also make an analogy with AMTL. Weapons are "free", but I certainly wouldn't expect my opponent to be all that happy if I changed the weapons after seeing the composition of his army.

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jb1
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:56 pm 
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I voted "no swap". I beleive in a strong rule system for the game.




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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:58 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 17 2007,16:49)
QUOTE

(CyberShadow @ Oct. 17 2007,16:43)
QUOTE
Specifically in a tournament situation...

I continue to view this as a 'change in the list of a zero point formation', and therefore voted no. I would put this as one step away from changing the character in a formation, since they are all the same points value.

You could also make an analogy with AMTL. Weapons are "free", but I certainly wouldn't expect my opponent to be all that happy if I changed the weapons after seeing the composition of his army.

What might be appropriate would be a middle ground in regards to both the AMTL and the Space Marines w/ Drop Pods (assuming that the player paid for a Strike Cruiser or Battlebarge):

Allow the AMTL / Space Marine player to decide upon weapons / Drop Pods once learning what race the other player is going to play, but before the army list composition is viewed.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:17 pm 
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I voted allow. It's not broken. It's never been an issue here. Can't work out why people are suddenly getting their backs up over this. Bit silly if it's not come up before don't you think? I'll be interested to see how much of a hit the Marine list takes if this gets instituted....

Blarg has a good idea though. Only choose when you see what army you get to play... not on viewing list. If any change should come this would be fair.
Nice one Blarg
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:28 am 
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Nice one Blarg


Allowing AMTL armies to decide their weapons fit after finding out what opponent they're facing is a nice idea?

That'd pretty much make AMTL armies unbeatable...

Bit silly if it's not come up before don't you think?

As far as I know, this tactic wasn't seeing intentional exploitation until Biggles / Ginger invented it a few weeks back.




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Chroma
 Post subject: The Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:39 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 18 2007,00:28)
QUOTE
Allowing AMTL armies to decide their weapons fit after finding out what opponent they're facing is a nice idea?

That'd pretty much make AMTL armies unbeatable...

Well, other than over-specialized armies like OGBM and Barans (and, mayhaps, Marines), you'd still have to make some hard choices.

You're facing Eldar, what do you pick?

You're facing Steel Legion, what do you pick?

You're facing Orks, what do you pick?

(Blarg's suggestion is knowing the "race", but not the army comp, I believe.)

And I don't think AMTL should be able to pick weapons before each round of a tourney... heck, I still feel they should have to pick specific Patterns!  *laugh*

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