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Transports for Dreadnoughts
Pariah Press
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:36 am 
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Now, I'm vaguely aware that a lot of discussion about dreadnoughts and potential transports has already gone on, and I hope I'm not covering ground that's already been covered, but I noticed something recently that sparked my interest. ?I believe it was in Jervis' designer's notes that were released in White Dwarf around the time of E:A's release. ?He said that he planned for Epic to return to its traditional place as the testing ground for new vehicle concepts which would be incorporated into the 40K setting. ?

?That said, why not introduce a new Space Marine vehicle, one which fills a gap which only becomes noticable at the Epic scale? ?Why not make some sort of largish vehicle capable for ferrying dreadnoughts from place to place without exposing itself to enemy radar and such, as with a Thunderhawk?




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Markconz
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:56 am 
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You wanna have a chat to Blarg who has expressed slightly interest in this idea also... :;):

Note Dreads being transported by air has been standard for ages. They have 3 ways in and 2 ways out, so it's not like they are actually lacking transport options.

Regarding why not introduce a vehicle - well what's the point when there is no model? It's a miniatures game, you need miniatures.  Perhaps if someone was to sculpt a nifty looking transport things might change. As it is you'd have to have Dreads sitting on/attached to landraiders somehow which seems a bit comical. Maybe a trailer, or 'pickup' landraider... :) But once again you are left with the fact that they do actually have transport already, so you're really just arguing they should have another variant available on top of the existing three.

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:51 am 
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I guess I just consider the Thunderhawk Gunship to be a rather, er, flamboyant way to redeploy.  I figured the Thunderhawks would generally get away from the battle as quickly as possible once they'd dropped their passengers.  

 Some sort of "pick-up" Land Raider is just what I was considering.  An open-topped Land Raider, but with the tailgate in the front instead of the back.  We wouldn't need a whole new miniature; we could convert the existing land raider mini.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:03 am 
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(Pariah Press @ Oct. 07 2007,05:51)
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Some sort of "pick-up" Land Raider is just what I was considering.  An open-topped Land Raider, but with the tailgate in the front instead of the back.  We wouldn't need a whole new miniature; we could convert the existing land raider mini.

I look foward to seeing that conversion :D

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:46 am 
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I would say that only reason why Dred dont have transport is that people are afraid of new and change. Surrender to Tzeentch!

I am with Blarg on this. Marines are about speed. Vindicators, land raiders and definedly dreaddoughnut are not speedy. It would be horribly expensive to put dreads in land raiders, so I would go for modified Rhino.

But as people are afraid of Tzeentch, no change will ever come. To be honest I have long time ago lost my faith in TacComs ability to get things going. There are only handfull of people whose opinion counts, rest of us can say anything we want: we are not heard. And those handfull will get their opinion through only with Argumentum ad nauseam.

So no new transport for dreaddoughnuts.

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centurion
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:04 am 
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I don't know if this helps but here is my take on your proposal.... :D



...granted its not perfect but hey it's EPIC. :p
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Markconz
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:43 am 
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(Nicodemus @ Oct. 07 2007,07:46)
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I am with Blarg on this. Marines are about speed. Vindicators, land raiders and definedly dreaddoughnut are not speedy. It would be horribly expensive to put dreads in land raiders, so I would go for modified Rhino.

Marines are about more than just speed. That's why they have the armour and other abilities. You don't fix marines by making them all Eldar.

Also there is nothing speedier than a drop pod or T-Hawk...


To be honest I have long time ago lost my faith in TacComs ability to get things going. There are only handfull of people whose opinion counts, rest of us can say anything we want: we are not heard. And those handfull will get their opinion through only with Argumentum ad nauseam.


1. If you really 'lost your faith in Tac-coms ability to get things going' why are you even here bothering to comment?  Heh I didn't get what I wanted either (dread formation), but it would be nonsense for me to claim that is because only a few people got listened to. It's because most people were listened to that I didn't get a dread formation  :(

2. People with problematic ideas, often blame other people for not accepting their idea rather than seriously addressing the problems of the idea itself. Address the problems with the idea and people will be far more willing to accept it. So deal with these - no background, no need (3 other transports), and perhaps most of all no model.

3. Instead of complaining that the list options you want don't exist, why not just make them and post them to the resource page for everyone to try out? Hena made a fun looking Scions marine list with lots of tanks I intend to use. Make a list with some sort of Dreadnought transport, or dreadnought formation, or something, and I might give that a go too. I agree some sort of rhino mod would be better than a Landraider. If it is an easy but good looking conversion that might sway people too...

@ centurion - well I like it! :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:47 am 
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(Nicodemus @ Oct. 07 2007,08:46)
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I would say that only reason why Dred dont have transport is that people are afraid of new and change. Surrender to Tzeentch!

I'm not afraid of change (I'm one of the more radical around here when it comes to discussing army list compositions, and I'm 100% in favour of many of the FW models being incorporated into the 'Steel Legion' army list), but I do like Epic to be representative of 40k's force compositions and background.

What starts with giving Dreadnoughts transport options, ends with adding the Andryads into the 'official' Net-EA rulebook...


Note that I'm not against adding non-canon units/armies into optional fan-made suppliments, but agreeing to having a non-canon unit in a supposedly 'official' army list is something I'm only going to be okay with under exceptional extenuating circumstances; I don't think that Dreadnoughts qualify for special treatment, especially when some prominent canon units like Veterans and Scout Bikers are absent from the official lists.




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jb1
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Yes the Sms are about speed and quick response. Now look at the dreadnaught for what it is. Good number of weapons,just as fast as a dismounted marine,but lacks ground transport. After seeing this I would tend to believe that the dread would be a more defensive type system, after an objective was taken. If a vehicle comes in for transporting the dread then great,but in the mean time there just isn't one.
Another thought would be to just let a Landraider carry one. After all it is a big vehicle with large access doors and plenty of room...

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:51 pm 
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To my mind the absolutely classic way to deploy dreads is drop pods; drop them right at the heart of the enemy at a critical point in the battle and let them do their stuff.

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M4jumbo
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:02 pm 
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In early 2nd Ed 40K the Land Raider could transport a dreadnought, so it's been in the background.   I doubt it's going to show up in an "official" tournament list, but as a house rule why not?
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:06 pm 
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In 2nd Edition the Dreadnougt was a much smaller walker than in later 2nd Edition (when the Codices where published)

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:10 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 07 2007,10:47)
QUOTE
Note that I'm not against adding non-canon units/armies into optional fan-made suppliments, but agreeing to having a non-canon unit in a supposedly 'official' army list is something I'm only going to be okay with under exceptional extenuating circumstances; I don't think that Dreadnoughts qualify for special treatment, especially when some prominent canon units like Veterans and Scout Bikers are absent from the official lists.

Canonical units are made that by being in the list/background.

The marine landing craft only appeares in the epic list, but it is as canonical as anything in the 40K lists.

So a dread transport could be added o the epic list and it would become canon.  the 40K lists wont hve one, because they have no use at such a level.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:31 pm 
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But the LandingCraft makes more sence. Bevore that there existed no unit which was able to transport Vehilces (LandRaiders,Rhinos,etc) to a planets surface.

The Dreadnoughts didn't need it. Droppods and Thunderhawks are sufficent to send it to a planets surface.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Transports for Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:03 pm 
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So a dread transport could be added to the epic list and it would become canon.


You won't get it accepted into an official list (on the SG website).

If you put it in an unofficial list (Net:EA), then that devaluates the unofficial list, which is a slippery slope that ends up with a half dozen new races being adopted into the 'canon' Net:EA background, and the project ceasing to have any relevance.

So a dread transport could be added o the epic list and it would become canon.  the 40K lists wont hve one, because they have no use at such a level.
And a Thunderhawk Transporter has a use in 40k too?

Dreadnoughts don't have a transport craft on the ground because it's not in the background.

Now we could add one, but that just means we're making up our own background...

Dreadnought Transports are the same in 40k as they are in Epic, Thunderhawk (gunship) or Drop Pod.




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