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Vindicator
1. No 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
2. Yes 73%  73%  [ 16 ]
3. Either, I don't have an opinion. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 22

Vindicator
Markconz
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:10 am 
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A few people have embraced the idea of giving walker to vindicators.  The justification is that this is a tank designed for fighting close up in urban areas, and that the current Specialist games model has a massive bulldozer blade on the front (in 40k dozer blade lets you reroll dangerous terrain tests).  It is also worth noting that the Ragnarok tank in the Siegmasters list has walker ability.

So the question for this poll is should vindicators have 'walker' ability added to the profile? Note that at this stage this question is just to evaluate the acceptability of the concept, and is separate to questions of other potential changes to the vindicator or final point costs.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:22 am 
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(Hena @ Jul. 28 2007,05:14)
QUOTE
I don't think you can separate the issue simply like that.

Yes it can, and I just did.

Points and other factors can be tweaked as necessary and there is absolutely no a priori reason that vindicators have to cost the same as predators. This  is just to see whether this part of the idea is acceptable to people or not in some form.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:24 am 
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I'd be more inclined to add a new ability that is more fitting to the unit and use that instead of Walker.

Walker isn't thematically appropriate. Not unless Walker is rewritten as well

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:34 am 
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(pixelgeek @ Jul. 28 2007,05:24)
QUOTE
I'd be more inclined to add a new ability that is more fitting to the unit and use that instead of Walker.

Walker isn't thematically appropriate. Not unless Walker is rewritten as well

So what do you think of it being on the Ragnarok then?

Is a 'move through cover' ability and description more appropriate and useful than 'walker' perhaps? (There were discussions on this for long enough in the tyranid list).

Either that or perhaps just add a suitable descriptive tagline in the walker ability: 'This ability also includes specialists who are able to move unimpeded through difficult terrain due to other means. For example bulldozer blades or other exceptional means of traction'.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:34 am 
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(Hena @ Jul. 28 2007,05:56)
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If you start changing points the list would need to change more to accommodate it. Objective isn't to break the existing lists, but to tune them a bit.

Thank you for letting me know we should be trying to 'tune' rather than 'break' the lists...  I'll try and remember :D

The startling irony is that you have already proposed 15 specific changes to the marine list including changing the points of vindicators and predators. There's nothing new here Hena.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:23 am 
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That the Vindicator has a big dozer blade isn't a justification for Walker imho.
In Wh40k in order to get use of the dozer blade (= re-roll missed dangerous terrain tests) you have to move very slow. This is already relfected inepic as all vehicles can re-roll their dangerous terain test if they don't move more than 5cm.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:49 am 
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Even though he's actually in favour of giving Vindicators Walker, Hena just likes to argue. :)

I voted yes.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Backgroundwise all tanks with a big enough gun (LemanRuss, Demolisher)can shoot a hole in walls and drive through :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:46 pm 
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IA3

IA2?

Whatever the reason, I think there are quite a few good arguments for giving Vindicators Walker.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Vindicator
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:43 pm 
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(Markconz @ Jul. 27 2007,22:34)
QUOTE
So what do you think of it being on the Ragnarok then?

Is a 'move through cover' ability and description more appropriate and useful than 'walker' perhaps? (There were discussions on this for long enough in the tyranid list).

Either that or perhaps just add a suitable descriptive tagline in the walker ability: 'This ability also includes specialists who are able to move unimpeded through difficult terrain due to other means. For example bulldozer blades or other exceptional means of traction'.

I think Move Through Cover would be far better for this sort of thing.

I don't recall seeing much of the discussion for the Ragnarok because if I had I would have suggest the same thing.

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