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Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!

 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:33 am 
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Well a surprise win for the sallies tonight.

Rug suggests the allies restriction is overly restrictive and that assault, bikes and speeders to be moved out.

Saying that he got to see the salamander mechanised horde roll forward so his opinion may have changed about other parts!

I used incidentally

560 Devestators
   Salamander Devestators
   Salamander Land Raider
   Hunter
   Librarian
535 Tacticals
   Salamander Tacticals
   Salamander Land Raider
   SC
375 Terminators
   Chaplain
350 Predator Annihilators
   Hunter
250 Thunderhawk
300 Assault Marines
   Chaplain
   2 Predator Incinerators
275 Warhound
200 Land Speeders
150 Thunderbolts

I played Rugs marine force
650 Reaver
250 Warhound
475 Tacticals
   Hunter
   SC
375 Tacticals
   Hunter
325 Terminators
300 Whirlwinds
250 Bikes
   Captain
200 Land Speeders
175 Assault Marines

Sorry for the long set up, I had to gater my wits somewhat!




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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:03 am 
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Well perhabs Salamanders could live entirely without Bikes and Land Speeders :D
They got lots of new shiny equipment for it :D

Have you written a battlereport?

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:26 pm 
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I think it was more it shouldn't be 0-1 and in the 1/3 restriction.

Saying that Rug would you now think having the capacity for a stack of titans, 2 assaultish formations and those big mechanised formations would be too much?

Sadly I took so long picking an army and messing around it took forever to start. I had a camera but I didn't want to slow things down further with photos and notes and stuff.

Still heres a potted history.

Rugs game was characterised by awful dice at near every turn.

His terminators were in reserve for teleport, mine were in the thunderhawk.

The objectives were pretty much in the top left quarter and the bottom right quarter.

Rugs deployment was in three parts. The Tacticals on the far right (from my perspective me), then bikes, assault and tacticals in the centre and the whirlwinds, speeders and titans castled in the woods on the left.

My deployment was the land speeders guarding the warhound on the right, on the far left some lone assault marines in the hope of drawing the terminators off and then on the centre left the tacticals, predators and devs behind a hill in a big clump.

Turn one init me

The first turn was characterised by some delaying and flank strikes until the centre tacticals were reduced enough to allow the terminators to drop in to kill most of the whirlwinds and bm the surrounding formations (despite whirlwind small arms fire killing one). For their pains they were warhounded and the single survivor never rallied for the rest of the game. The Reaver showed itself to draw a bead on the warhound, but the doubling fire proved ineffective, doing only a point of damage and staggering the beast (raising the question - does your facing change?). In return it copped the fire of the preds and tacticals, stripping shields and doing a point of damage.

Turn two I won a critical init roll and after sending more fire into the reaver from the tacs and getting a point or two of damage, assaulted with the assault marines. The Reaver was knocked down to 1dc and broken, fleeing back into the wood. My aircraft all failed to appear this turn.
Turn two was probably the worse for Rug dice wise, with the rallied whirlwind managing to break itself amoung other events like the bikes firefighting the down two stands assault marines and losing after only killing one infantry stand, and poor saving throws all round.

Turn three the whirlwind finally manged to fire after Rug got the initiative. It didn't save the reaver though as the devestator marines set themselves up to support an air assault from the empty thunderhawk, knocking off the last point of damage. The terminators contested the blitz and an objective but the tacticals fluffed it, losing an assault against the warhound and leaving it free to go contest my blitz.

Time run out but Rugs marines had a bad position for turn 4, facing my airforce without flak cover, and still having to deal with the warhound to clear the blitz (and the thawk would just land to contest it last thing) and the untouched dev and tac formations to secure their own blitz whilst stopping me taking the closeby other two objectives. End of game we reckoned would be blitz, take and hold and bts for me - with marines with no bm's can't even expect them to fail their activation rolls to move and fire! Still it wasn't nessecerily in the bag, getting the initiative and some lucky assaults with the warhound and three surviving assault marines could have drawn or won it. A bit more luck on rugs part earlier would have meant more activations needed to kill the reaver and a potential turn 3 win 2-1 to him. Hell him winning initiative turn 2 would have meant the reaver could have sustained into one of the big formations and stripped the armour away, crippling its movement.




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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:52 am 
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Well tried a 2000 point game today with the assault options as part of the main list. It certainly gave me more flexibility and the Dark Eldar folded after a good first turn (I couldn't make any armour saves though luckily they didn't have very good armour at all and plenty of lv transports with infantry inside).

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:59 am 
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Well I think any further testing by me isn't helpful as I've exhausted my styles of using marines and possible list configs (and have steadily improved both style and list so now getting minor victories). Others now need to have a go! Has it gone to far and is now overpowered? Does it meet the original design goals?

I'll start a new thread with the current list I've been using. Once a few others try it and its hopefully not abusable I guess we would move into pretty post production and try and make a nice looking book. To that end we may want to bother this chap.
And of course I can't find the link. Anyone rember the guy who did a beautiful codex for his chapter?

Otherwise I'm out of ideas. Reviewing old comments I hope I have addressed the various problems, mainly with the support tweaks. Certainly the last two games have been victories which is unusual, and against new opponents.

Other ideas that weren't implemented were IC whirlwinds. A good idea however the points for whirlwinds would have to go up, and here a key problem is activation count. So I reckon this actually wouldn't help much. Unless perhaps they became a formation of 3 for 250/275.

The only other thing I'm considering but would need someone to try out is the vindicator formation being 4 vindies and/or incinerators. My worry here is they would be too good a Landing Craft load. Or be too Skorcha like roaring off and jumping infantry in cover 75 cm's away with 8 5+AP attacks making vindies somewhat obsolete. Thoughts? If not they can happily go on (with the downside I can only find two pred incierators in my collection, but a couple of preds with no sponsons - where did the heavy flamers go?).

At this late stage and having dropped it in testing ages back (maybe I did try it with a landing craft) I'm thinking it shouldn't go in.

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


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