different people have different things they want to see from a list, if I can oblige as many of them as possible I try to, but yes, it's a very minor naming point and as I've said, foot down, decision made, let's all move on

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No, it's just Tarantulas that are used unmanned for perimeter defence. The Thunderfire battery is an apocalypse formation of 3+ Thunderfires, each crewed by it's own Techmarine plus the formation is led by the chapter's Master of the Forge. The other vehicles I mentioned definitely have Techamarine pilots too - they're clearly visible piloting the Stormtalon and Stormraven models. Here's the screencap from GW's rules for the Thunderfire battery:



A crucial point is the Thunderfire Cannon doesn't have any kind of ammo container. The shells for each volley are loaded into the breach by the accompanying Techmarine (if you look at the model he has a servo arm attachment allowing it to quickly load 4 shells into the breach at once). It's not designed or able to operate unmanned.

Wow, you can't leave it alone can you Glyn?

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Batrep #3 added

Going forward I would like to see tests of the following stuff emphasised:

-Bastions - are they priced sensibly? do they work okay? (they should have cc6+ on the quickref sheet too)

-Fellblade - I've left it at DC4 for now, how does it fare against armies with pinpoints/deathstrikes/shadowswords and other stuff that can actually kill it, is it too binary, being a near-indestructible handful for some armies and an expensive pushover for others?

-Hyperios platforms - are they long ranged enough? are they spammable? does spamming them shut the air game down? do they need to be more limited based on this?

-Terminators - for me they're just not an attractive option, I need to try teleporting them, can others test them out please?

-Achilles - I find them overpriced and hard to justify, can others try them out and see how they get on?

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He was responding to Steve54's comment, nothing to concern yourself with mate

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On the Achilles, I agree that it seems like it would be hard to make it useful as an upgrade for the LR FM. However, it might make more sense as an upgrade to devastators or tacticals. Since they're so rare in the fluff, it would make sense that they might be attached to a formation in singletons, but also to a FM that can better take advantage of the type of firepower it can dish out. In other words, in most situations it would just dilute a LR fm's AT abilities, but attached to devs or tacs that need to dig infantry out of cover (siege assault), it would be particularly useful. It could be another way to build a marine BTS as well, instead of the very common SC with hunter tactical that's rather ubiquitous.

With that in mind, is it legal in the list to take a LR upgrade, then pay the points to upgrade that LR to an Achilles? I'd like to test a dev fm with it, but I'm not sure it is (or will be) allowed with your upgrade structure.

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Interesting thoughts, I think if the achilles is moved to the upgrades section, I'd like to remove the ability to field a whole formation, as it's meant to be very rare

I've developed the list with a defensive theme in mind so hadn't thought about the attacking side so much

I think I'd need to cost an achilles upgrade at 100 points, which would buy you quite a lot of other stuff.... if you feel there's a glaring hole in the list without achilles as formation upgrades, we can look at adding them in 0.3

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I agree. Achilles as upgrade makes more sense than as a formation of its own.

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I'd suggest Achilles to be a 0-2 upgrade to Land Raider, Tactical or Devestator formations. The Achilles is a rare tank but the IF made them in the first place and would probably have more than any other chapter.

100 points sounds good and the Achilles could be a +25 point upgrade that upgrades one Land Raider to a Land Raider Achilles.

okay thoughts for v0.3 then

- Hyperios platforms don't activate, this is to stop activation spam, tarantulas can activate as normal
- Achilles moved to upgrades, max 2 per formation, available to tactical, dev and land raiders, 100 points each, or 25 points to upgrade a land raider

any more?

what are people's thoughts on hyperios/tarantulas claiming objectives? I think they should be able to, in the context of a siege list, objectives should be difficult to capture

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Claiming? No. Contesting? Yes.
I wouldn't allow activations for Tarantulas also. They should be an area denial weapon (something like a shooting and destroyable terrain feature). Nothing more.

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I disagree there, the list lacks cheap activations and tarantulas should have the option to sustain fire as well as overwatch to burn a few activations, also they're part of the bastion formation which can activate, for consistency across the list I think they should behave the same way

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Claim: no
Contest: yes
Activate: yes

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yeah contest is fair in both cases, I will add a note, also I think for the bastion unit, if the bastion is alive, then tarantulas from its unit can capture objectives (kinda like the tyranid EUK synapse rule)

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