I think it may be a case of a comment directed at grey Hunter development relative to other list options getting all het up.

I do actually think its a shame that Warhounds are such a de-facto choice (as a side issue how much would people be willing to pay for their hounds? 300? 325? 350?) compared to the mainstay of a chapter, but then again thats based on 40k, which is far sillier Terminators are at least space marines.

Edit - Jeridan said it better above.

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Rumoured stats and options for Grey Hunters:



Source: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212260
So 10 Grey Hunters CAN wield 2 Plasma guns. Note that this is the same layout as Imperial Guard Stormtroopers which have one Plasma gun shot in Epic.

I would give Blood-/Sky-/Swiftclaws an Initiative of 2+ with a +1 bonus if they take an Assault action to represent their eagerness.

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A Battle Company is 2 Tactical, 1 Assault, 1 Devestator.


Lots of books.

Forgeworld is very good at listing force levels in their Campaign books. The majority of battles are carried out there by Battle Companies, with reinforcements from the rest of the Chapter as appropriate... which matches what Codex Space Marines (any edition) has always said about how Marine armies go to war).


What if Warhounds were 300 points.

Or, my personal favourite, 25cm speed.

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The key question is do you want to reward players for taking Tacticals or punish them for not taking them?

Same with Warhounds.

I think the Warhound has already become a bit more expensive in Marine lists in the Epic UK versions (don't quote me, I'd need to check).

Tacticals- I don't like the idea of punishing people for not taking them, Marines have it hard as it is.

I think some sort of reward or incentive to take them, like a 'free' optional Dreadnought or Vindicator etc. A basic pts drop won't cut it, the Dev's will always be better shots, the Assault better at combat. Tacticals need more than just being a bit meh at both.
They need a freebie, or a stat change, or some other novelty.

I should probably comment on the Space Wolves...

I think they should be a viable Air Assault list, i.e. they should be able to fit their 'core' choices into Thunderhawks.

Quite aside from the harsh reality that this is basically the only way to get Marines to work competitively, there is no background reason to say Space Wolves are too stupid to make use of the dozens of Thunderhawk Gunships lying around the fang.

That said, with Grey Hunters being an Uber Tactical, there is a risk SW's would become a better version of the SM Air Assault list- much like the 3rd Ed Codex Supplement creep they and BA/DA caused.

I'll put my vote in never to see fully armoured Space Wolves riding wolves...
Epic still has some respect left, unlike it's drunk waster brother 40k,  

I will look at the SW list in more detail when I have time.

Well Ben, you *are* the AMTL Army Champion...  

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Sorry gents I'm not after modelling 40K that closely, it's already been said further up the forum that giving them a 15cm shooting option (in conjunction with Long Fangs) would be lots of AP/AT fire, and might discourage people from engaging, which feels un-space-wolf-like to me (we can spend hours going through the permutations, no doubt someone will argue that they will be taking power weapons and similar at least half the time and the merry-go-round continues).

Anyways, I'm off to play Epic tonight

But why should War Griffon Warhounds be slower than the non-Legio specified Warhounds in the Space Mariens and ImperialGuard armies?  

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His changes would *cascade* to those other lists... his "Champion"ing also covers those "Allied" instances.

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Then who is the Navy Champion?

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That guy over there in blue... *rimshot*

Since there's not an Imperial Navy Army, the NetERC caretakes them.

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I disagree. In both NetEa and EpicUK the codex marine list is basically air and they have the even more air list in the form of the Black Templars (you too can take 2 scouts for your tacticals to get 8 units to fit in a thunderhawk) in both forum.

By costing the choices as air choices, but essentially including a unit or two that won't fit (for grey hunters a stand and a rhino), it gets a free boost to the ground and drop operations. I believe wolves were originally the drop army in their fluff anyway.

Neither option (drop and ground) has been done that way yet. The Salamanders list does mechanised troops, but fluff reasons they are a bit slower than regular marines and are a 'heavy mech' choice. Space Wolves could be the light mech force that works with a viable drop pod alternative deployment.

So competent at air ops, good at drops and ground ops.

Course if it doesn't work air assault is a very easy army to do, but the question then becomes why if there are two other lists doing that?



I thought this and then Ben pointed out how silly everything else is I guess they could fit as heavy cavalry types. still I reckon they should be subtly unattractive choices

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General Plumer, 191x

Yes, when the force org's were released for space marine in WD the wolves were the drop army.

I never saw myself as being given the remit to change the Warhound Stats in that way, actually.

I do think that speed 25cm Warhounds would do a lot to fix their issues, both in the AMTL list and as allies for other armies.

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Quite.

Why say no to power armoured wolf riders, when you still have Hobbits with Sniper Rifles??


The 40k setting is composed of two elements in equal measure: Hillarious excess, and really awesome things.

Wolf riders fit both labels nicely!  

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