Hena's not interesting in 40k stats, yet is willing to extend the flamestorm cannons' range due to an apocalypse datasheets?

Apocalypse datasheets are, of course, total nonsense 99% of the time.

The flamestorm cannon is a shorter ranged inferno cannon, as BlackLegion says. That makes it 15cm AP3+ ignores cover. I can't understand how there can be any debate on this.

IN the current Salamander V1.11 army list the Land Raidfer Redeemer has the following stats:

Salamanders Land Raider Redeemer
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 25cm 4+ 6+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Frag Launchers (base contact) Assault weapons -
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+ -
Flamestorm Cannons 30cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Mutli-melta 15cm MW5+ and -
Small arms Macro-weapon
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Tactical, Devastator & Scout).
The Multi-melta can shoot and be used to confer the macro-weapon ability to the unit’s firefight value..

Off course it will loose the Multi-melta and the FF will be incresed to 3+.
So unifies stats would be:

Salamanders Land Raider Redeemer
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 25cm 4+ 6+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Frag Launchers (base contact) Assault weapons -
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+ -
2 x Flamestorm Cannon 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Notes: [i]Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Tactical, Devastator & Scout).

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Opps. Copy&Paste error

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To repeat:

The flamestorm cannon is a shorter ranged inferno cannon. That makes it 15cm AP3+ ignores cover. I can't understand how there can be any debate on this.

Agreed, making it 30cm is completely unjustified for a weapon that has a range of Zero in Warhammer 40,000.

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Well the debate is: ZOMG it is a assault only tank!!! Let give it a longer shot/shots so that it can do something else than engagements.

Well this is the dilemma of every 15cm weapon. Should i shoot or should i Engage?

@E&C: As said previously: The Apocalypse formation can have fewer but longer ranged shots. It turns every two Flamestorm Cannons into a single Inferno Gun (the Hellhound's weapon).

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Apocalypse is just a bunch of special rules that encourage buying multiples of things.

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Exactly the kind of apocalypse gibberish special rules that we should avoid in epic

True. But IF somone really wants 30cm on the Flanmestorm Cannons then he can point to the Apocalypse formation as justification. But only if the individual Redeemer has fewer shots. 2 x 30cm Flamestorm Cannons on each Redeemer would be unjustified.

Well ok. IIRC originally the longer range proposal came from TRC. I looked for a justification for these and found the Apocalypse formation. Thats it.
Personally i'm fine with 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover for each Flamstorm Cannon. Hena seems to suggest 30cm but he wants playtest results (me too) to show that this is needed.

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I've completely lost track of what stats are being discussed, so this is my attempt to get that ironed out. This is my best shot at it. Correct me if different stats are under consideration.
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Consensus for the Redeemer is basically the stats on the very first page, with reduced CC.

Land Raider Redeemer
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 25cm 4+ 6+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Frag Launchers (base contact) Assault weapons -
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+ -
2 x Flamestorm Cannon 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Tactical, Devastator & Scout).


Consensus on the LRC is no MM, which leaves basically the EpicUK stats with better CC.

Land Raider Crusader
Armoured Vehicle; Save 4+; Speed 25cm; CC5+; FF4+
Frag Launchers; (base contact); Assault Weapons
Twin assault cannon; 30cm; AT4+/AP4+
Hurricane Bolters, Small Arms, Extra attack (+1)
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (2 Terminator or 3 other)

The Land Raider Redeemer is supposed to have the same "Frag Launchers" as a Land Raider Crusader, which would imply CC5+, no?

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I would have thought so, but that didn't seem to be under consideration.

If the Frag Launchers improve CC then the Redeemer should have CC5+ too. If not then the Crusader should have CC6+ too.

Else you are right neal. This are the discussed stats.

The Hurricane Bolters could be aproblem for a future list (Imperial Fists) which would sue the Ironclad Dreadnought. It'S iconic loadout is a Seismic Hammer CC-weapon and a Hurricane Bolters.
If two Hurricane Bolter sponsons only give +1EA what is the single Hurricane Bolter on the Ironclad supposed to do? Only an improved FF rating (FF3+?)?

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