I'm definitely listening to the discussion don't worry.

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Having Tacs for 275 would certainly make me consider their use more. Now I don't think I've ever used a tactical formation since I bought the Reaver sometime around New Year as it makes a much "better" (subjectively!) expensive base formation and I don't want two in 3000 points.

For some reason I prefer having two Tactical formations - one for BTS and another for Supreme Commander (I might be the only one ever to fluffily put a supreme commander in with Terminators and I don't think it worked out even once).

Interesting thing is that would make them equal in price to 6 Assault marines. Two tactical stands equal in overall capability to 2 Assault stands. Is that a baseline we want to hold on to?

Hmm. Actually it'd make the three "core" Power Armored formations cost the same 275 points with the Dev point hike.

Let's go for it, E&C!

I'm not quite sure how to make six assault marines worth 275 points without changing the stats or adding special rules (which should probably be done only as a last resort). You can't make them CC2+ and there's no room in between to make them better in assault!

Maybe give them Walker to give a slight boost? So they can rip up people hiding in buildings and so on.

But from what I understand E&C he's open to changing them to 250 once playtests show that 275 is too much.

edit edit: nah, stupid. I never liked special rules that mess with other peoples' special rules.

edit edit edit (this is getting way out of hand): a couple ideas.

First, give them 2 character slots. With upgrades you get an identically costing 8 assault marines with 2 chappies for 450 points, only with one activation less. At the low end you can pack in 2 chaplains and 6 assault marines for 375. How would that change the picture.

Idea the second: give them rhinos! Now, that might look a bit weird since they can't actually embark in them. But if you want a ground Assault formation it could be pretty convenient as they can give portable cover and increase number of models for no additional cost (to which you're probably also supposed to add some Predators for which the Rhinos will soak up the hits). You might or might not also allow replacing them with Razorbacks.

I'm saying this as I've tried adding Baal Predators to a ground based assault formation and the results were pretty lame (though obviously I didn't have any experience with using such a unit). 8 models for 425 points before adding characters (they didn't actually make it into assault anyway) and you can't even claim cover for all of them by a prevalent houserule (which I thought prudent to adopt). If you could have rhinos, 6 Assault + 3 Rhinos + 2 Predator Destructors would be a rather sweet deal for 400 points. You can add a surcharge of +25 points for Rhinos and I'd still take it just to try it out.

Yeah it's Deathwind. What do you think about my ramblings Rug now that someone posted and I won't add any more of them to that post?

Deathwind is the name of a missile launcher type weapon that can be fitted to standard troop carrying drop pods.

Drop pods that 100% exchange their transport capacity for weapons are called Deathstorm pods.

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Adding two chaplains (come on, why call it two characters? ) is one idea, the other is to have them 4 strong with the option of adding 2 veteran assault stands (better stats) for 75?
I've found incidentally 4 strong stands with no air assault options are worth about 150.

Edit must refresh page before hitting reply option!

You have all the 'generic' common Epic suggestions for formations. May teleport. May garrison. May planetfall. Get cheaper. Get fearless in all or part. Get an odd upgrade (assault troops with Hunters!). Allow something else in the army to get better/get access to it.

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Hey, you have to keep the pretense!

(No, I don't quite get why they made a jump pack Librarian either)

Overall I really like the idea of larger, ground based and armor supported Assault formations, I think balancing them for that is a right way to go.

I don't quite like having VAS as a separate unit as core marines don't have separate Veterans either.

Well they aren't Blood Angels    And if a Chapter should have Veteran Assault Squads (Vanguard Veterans) which are noticeable different from regular Assault Mariones in Epic then Blood Angels (together with Raven Guard) are the Chapter of choice.

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I would like there to be no Vanguard Veterans in this list.

If you wish to have some, I suggest you model one base in a formation as Vanguard and then in-game counts-as a standard unit with a Chaplain attached.

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I don't like the term "mud marines", it implies sluggishness and focus on durability over speed. Salamanders are mud marines.

Blood Angels should work on the ground, but with speed and grace, not like a sledgehammer but like a rapier.

I can't think of a cool moniker :/

"Tarmac Marines"?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread