@TRC: WOW this is the reduced radioactivity version?  
And why go back to V1.9.3? Iupped V1.10 the 10 because to mark its the final version. I also corrected some typos in it which you didn`t correct in your V1.9.3  

On LRR: I agree with E&C: Call it "Salamanders Land Raider Redeemer" if you want to use the Multi-melta on it.

@Ginger:  The LRR uses the same wording about the Multi-melta in Firefights as the Land Speeder.

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I agree with you BL - but the Land Speeder does not have a whole lot of other weapons as well. Usually where there is a MW as well as others, the MW gets EA+1 in the assault to separate out its effects by confering MW on the extra attack. Here the desire seems to be to confer the MW ability of one weapon on the fire-fight capabilities of the other three weapons, which does not seem appropriate on the face of things and could potentially be confusing; hence the suggestion to add a note to that effect. Has this combination been used  elsewhere?

However, if it is indeed the intention to give it MWFF and thus slightly different stats to the 'common' LRR, calling it the "Salamander Land Raider" does seem a good idea.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I see no confusion. The LRR in the Salamanders list has only ONE attack.
Extra Attacks would be listed as Extra Attacks. The LRR hasno Extra Attackslisted so it ha sonly one FF-attack and this is a Macro-weapon attack due to the Multi-melta.

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Ok, the stats are
FF 3+
2x Flamestorm Cannon 15cm AP3+
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+

vs

FF4+
Flamestorm Cannons 30cm AP3+
Twin Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+
Multi Melta 15cm MW5+, Small Arms

The 2x3+ make it a far better air assault tank as you can land and flame away merrily. 4 of them, backed up with shooty infantry and you have a mean shooting formation when the LC drops in. Also the 15cm isn't as much a problem as it would be in other lists as you want your army to be toe to toe with the enemy.

But yes, this one clearly has a better weapons load out - saying that its FF3+ ignore cover is as good as MW4+ for armour up to 5+ and the default choice for sticking a librarian in (one will wonder why they always ride around in Redeemer).

But who in their right mind would pick Henas Redeemer over a Land Raider? 2 45cm AT4+ and 1 30cm AP4+, ff4+ wipes the floor with the above redeemer, if you aren't air dropping in, and gives much needed AT fire. The Sallie redeemer is meant to be an alternative to a land raider, not an inferior model.



I must say it was alright. Well appart from the excellent dental hygene, then again who is to say the yanks wouldn't still be obbsessed with teeth after the apocalpse, hell they would probably become more worried! Then again there were small jaring bits, but the core old sci fi story of machine that thinks its a man is still a good one, and done with a big special effects budget here.

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Yes, should say that, I messed up everything a bit shifting things around with cut and paste.



I personally don't thinkt he dreds need it as I've become accustomed to not using them or seeing them as one shot wonders. Likewise the LR change is incorporated in line with the ERC changes. And the vindicator speed boost.



Or just in theory close assault it as its incredibly vulnerable to this compared to regular marines - of course when your orks do close assault they have to roll higher than 1 to hit

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Well yes, it shoould be translucent colours? Has it not worked, is my screen settings a bit odd compared to everyone elses?



My excuse is becuase I'm nursing a labrador puppy with a broken hip bone and a steadily growing addiction to ice cream (the dog, not me, I'm already addicted to sweets).

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Well, I've tested both you know...

But yes it works as you expect. You double in, shoot with it then support another formation or attack next turn (usually the latter). The disadvantage is you are in CC range with your formation which is nasty if they are devs.

Far better to have a regular raider and sit at 30cm 70% of the time and firefight at your liesure next turn, or defend in a ff.

The single 30cm/MM still doubles in but does less damage, but is better support against 'hard targets' (and worse vs soft ones like infantry).

The firepower at 15cm with the 2xAP3+ version is one of the main reasons the LC int he sallies list was raised to 425.

I didn't test 2x30cm as its too far removed from the weapons capabilities.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I'd really like to see the LRR with one statline across the lists.

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Neal

Sadly the army doesn't really have the option of avoiding such targets as it typically lacks a large array of options to kill things
And the engage and retain isn't normally an option with 2-3 core formations moving at 25cm per move unless we are talking about turn 3, but which at this point things are looking somewhat ragged. Unless of course you are using one of your 2-3 fast fragile formations to initiate the assault, but they seem to draw an awful lot of fire for some reason.



Ignoring this list for a moment and imagining others (as the sallies do rely on MWFF to kill hard stuff), you are left with (without the MM) the following - the current fit which is worse than a LR and unless you have the one marine army that lacks AP fire (rare) you would always go with the standard raider (better FF to) if you really want one or you intend to ground attack with it, in which case 8 AP3+IC plus 4 AT4+ will rip the heart out of any of the common mechanised hq's, doing even more damage if the occupants are added in as well.
So to make it worthwhile on the ground you go to your next step of upping it to 2x30cm. Now its got the same air capability and better ground fire, better I think than the regular LR and is even better in assaults as now you can stand 30cm off the target and engage in from a position of relative safety. Then of course you can go to one 30cm shot which is my epicuk version, because now you are looking at pricing the tank at 75 points, not 175 for 2. Even then its not that hot, but tough luck as there is not much else you can do if you want parity with other hulls and you aren't throwing in the other weapon.

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

You want this list to be adopted by epicuk, and not the ERC?

That can't be so because you're using all the ERC rules mods...

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Sorry, I have a mental EpicUk version in my head without all the erc mods and stuff in my head - in essence how would I build it to match their idea of land raider varients.
In essence to balance with a regular EpicUK LR two choices, my prefered AC/FC/MM CC6+ FF5+ but I suspect they wouldn't like it going by their crusader, so instead it would be their assault cannon, the 30cm AP3+, CC5+ and FF3+ with the rest of the slack taken up by the 75 point upgrade freeing up 50 points in the list for something else (probably with a couple of tweaks could be a scout formation going by my 'average' list).

But this is all something off the topic somewhat.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

And i don't care sh*t about EpicUK (only as inpsiration source). What matters to me is the NetERC.

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I think you'd have to complain at yourself about Librarians riding in Redeemers then...

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