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Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!

 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Gw is strange ??? But else i like the design of the flags :) And your paintjob too off course :D

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:38 am 
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THanks BL !  Sorry again Chris ! :blush:

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:34 am 
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This is teh list I was testing vs the nids, note the deletion of the transport rule.

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:13 am 
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And because I was bored here is the Salamanders Chapter :) Note this is not a serious doc, just something for an appendix!

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:42 am 
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List look better than the previous one :)

And for the Chapter List: I don't think Veterans have acsess to more than one heavy weapon per squad.

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:42 pm 
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Which is the same as Tacticals is it not?

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:53 pm 
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I'm refering to this under the Firedrakw Company:
Four Salamander Tactical units, four
Salamander Devastator units and four
Rhinos


The First Company don't has Devastators. Veteran Squads are basically Tactical Squats with some extra closecombat gear.

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:33 am 
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So any outstanding concerns for these chaps? I have yet to do a drop army, would cheap upgrades make this better? Or worse considering you can only have 20 units drop poding unless you go all bargy?

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:03 am 
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Just seen a q from NH in a different thread, here is the response copied here as well.

Don't know how I missed the reply, I blame the new posts button!

The biggest problem was the WE. The formations couldn't do enough damage in a straight up firefight to beat them (though note the nid WE stats here were horrendus). Against the swarms it was a FF clipping assault field day, but anything left in range shredded a formation in return.

With next to no incoming fire the rhinos never died and this gave the army excellent mobility, often with marines staying in transports for devestating 50cm range firefights. When the nid attack developed the army was able to completely bypass the main thrust, with key formations remaining dangerous until late game (when the WE finally gobbled up a fair chunk of them).

The nid list negated a lot of the potential strengths though. The sallies couldn't mass to much to form a devastating firebase due to the WE threat, though of course I had mobility instead.

The firepower was if anything slightly less than a regular marine army, with 15cm weapons on the preds, extra marines and termies. Generally if I was in range to shoot I was in range to assault, though this is against an aggressive army. Against a different force though doubling and shooting might happen a bit more - though here you have to balance -1 to the missile launchers against the benefit for the multi melta to fire.

The more I use it the more I hate the multi melta! Getting in range means getting in CC range of the enemy. The lowered FF/MW combo works I think now the upgrade cost is lowered. Still its largely an extra bodies boost, with the MW attacks not really benefiting the formation much (who wants to see the numbers for 4+ vs MW5+ ? :) ). Maybe the cost should go back up (and knock on costs like th expensive thawk come down) and the FF be raised to Tac/Dev normal amounts?

Activations and cost was a big headache. On reflection I wouldn't have bothered with the extra preds for the assault marines and gone for Chaplains for two formations instead.

Oh and the teleport, recover, assault, tactic worked perfectly!

Ultimately I see the main enemy tactic being kill the rhinos, kill the supporting formations, avoid the infantry formations until you want to fight them. Conversely the main Sally tactic seems to be using the support formations and cover to tie up enough of the enemy to allow the big formations to get to attack range, with a definite bias therefore for terminators and warhounds and maybe a brace of speeders.

One thing the army does is take casualties! The loss of some of the marine flexibility for bigger formations seems to result in far higher casualties, even for me and I can be an atrocious marine commander!

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:55 pm 
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The one thing after a couple more sally games I am not sure about is...

The extra marines. Should they be cheap with the current ststs, or cost more with higher stats?

(These chaps have MM)

Option 1
Tacs -  75 points - FF5+
Devs - 100 points - FF4+

Or
Tacs - 100 points - FF4+
Devs - 125 points - FF3+

For cheap they appear more... but I use them as ablative shields. Higher cost and better stats maybe I would try and preserve them?

(Note air assault is adjusted to cost the same for each so no real advantage there.)

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:53 am 
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The MM infantry is uually the last to go. I preserve them until all Missile Launcher units are gone. But then iusually have a "in-your-face" playing style where firepower mattera more to me than range :)




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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:52 am 
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Indeed so do I and higher FF is often better against the sort of targets I find the tacs and devs going after.

For all those that calculate this stuff on the fly
To hit value, then save, then amount of kills

MW5+ 0+ 0.33, 6+ 0.33, 5+ 0.33, 4+ 0.33, RA6+ 0.28, RA5+ 0.22, RA4+ 0.17
 Ã‚ 4+ 0+ 0.50, 6+ 0.42, 5+ 0.33, 4+ 0.25, RA6+ 0.35, RA5+ 0.22, RA4+ 0.13

MW4+ 0+ 0.50, 6+ 0.50, 5+ 0.50, 4+ 0.50, RA6+ 0.42, RA5+ 0.33, RA4+ 0.25
 Ã‚ 3+ 0+ 0.67, 6+ 0.56, 5+ 0.44, 4+ 0.33, RA6+ 0.46, RA5+ 0.30, RA4+ 0.16




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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Hmm with the 5th Edition rules update the Land Raider Prometheus lost all its special rules it shared with the Damocles Rhino. Now it is just a Land Raider with 4 Twinlinked Heavy Bolters available only for Command Squad, Honour Squad and Terminators.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/ia2-update.pdf

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 Post subject: Calling all Salamanders! The time to test is now!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Wow so the Epic one becomes nicely distinctive :)

Baffled as to why it costs more than the regular raider though. Are 4 twin Hve Bolter that much better than 2 twin las and 1 twin hve bolter in 40k?

More interesting is allowing Land Raiders multi melta. Maybe the regular raider in the salamanders list could have one as standard? Would that be FF5+MW same cost or FF4+MW more cost?

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