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Changing the core Marine list
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:08 pm 
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But are they really better than the single Warhound you exchanged for them?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:11 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Apr. 25 2007,20:36)
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I think E&C has a good point here :)

Yes but it is hard to take him seriously with that avatar.

My rough maths reveal that you could field 1-2 extra formations, or load up on more leaders.

Is that too much of a boost though?

Would you be proposing something like this E&C?

(Though I would still do something with the Armour upgrades to stop big AV formations - that should be a varient list.)

Note I don't think termies should pay extra for teleporting, leave the option is and rather alter their mechanisation cost.

And the devs probably are the best power armour formation. Their air assault option gets better here as well.

I feel we should leave warhounds out of it - or just assume we take all three :)

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Reaver
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:35 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Apr. 24 2007,15:07)
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As far as the actual detail changes to the SM list, I'm still in favor of:

point changes -
+25 Termies
+25 LC
-25 armor formations

Hunter upgrade- 1-2 Hunters, available to armor formations
TSKNF changes - half BM in assault, Leader removes 2 BMs

+5cm move to Vindicators and maybe to Attack Bikes

Maybe Dreadnought upgrade at 1-4, instead of 1-2

I voted (in the other thread) for sticking with one list. I think all we need are the simple fixes that have been discussed for the last couple of years. Basically what Neal said.

The only thing I'd change is: drop Termie formations by 25pts and lose Teleport, then pay +50 pts to get Teleport if you want it.
Or add a 4 Termies / 4 LRs formation at 650 points.

But don't just push up the cost - otherwise Termies will never ride in LRs.

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Reaver
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:33 pm 
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Good catch, Hena - I didn't think of that.

Please can I have my Termies + Land Raider formation then? I really want some mobile Termies...
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:39 pm 
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Many people have already assembled and painted their armies; some have enven had to re-work their formations from previous editions of Epic. It'd be really annoying for many of those to have to rebase or repaint sections of their armies because we decide to restructure the Marine army.


I don't think anyone is suggesting altering the base formations, so nothing goes out of date.

A ground based Marine army from the current list could be much more competitive with just these minor tweaks. The big problems IMO beging:
Land raider cost
Vindicator speed/weapons
Dreadnoughts.

Land Raiders.
easy to solve, but you change the upgrades for devs.
So the Land Raider upgrade is 1-4 for 75 points each for termies only (giving the mechanised formation for 650 points).
And the devs lose them, instead gaining vindicators. No great change there, plus why are they getting land raiders and tacs don't? And why are they virtually the only formation not to get vindies?

Dreadnaughts I think are fine really. Check out the long analysis thread on the SG forum for some ideas about using them (in essence cheap air assault boost/dev, dread and hunter garrison). Other lists can have the formation of them in.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:08 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 25 2007,17:11)
QUOTE

(BlackLegion @ Apr. 25 2007,20:36)
QUOTE
I think E&C has a good point here :)

Yes but it is hard to take him seriously with that avatar.

....

Is that too much of a boost though?

Would you be proposing something like this E&C?

Oi!

I'm always serious.


Would it be too much?

If that 1 extra formation is a mud-marine formation, no, I don't think it's too much... I think it could actually be the way to fix mud-marines whilst leaving airborne marines pretty much alone.



Also: Anyone who doesn't recognize 'Ralph' (My Avatar) loses old-school arcade gaming points in my eyes.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:30 am 
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How about this as upgrade for Whirlwinds?
Incendiary Castellan Missiles Upgrade= +50pts(or more?) for Whirlwind Detachment. Whirlwinds gain IgnoreCover for their Whirlwind Launchers.

DarkAngels have it in the new codex, BloodAngels have it in the new codex and i bet in the upcoming revamped Codex SpaceMarine Redux all Smchapters willget it too insteadof the mine-laying missiles.

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Soren
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:54 am 
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As I have said...not every 40k fart......  :blush:  :D

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:55 am 
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I should have a game on Saturday and my opponent wants to face marines so I'll pick a list from TRC's document and report back.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:27 pm 
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I take it you mean the original plus the proposed tweaks one? (As opposed to E&C's infantry price cut idea.)

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:56 pm 
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It seems that many people think that LRs are still too expensive in the upgrades at 100 points each.  I am sympathetic to this view and really think that SM LRs are worth ~85-90 points.  What if, instead of 1-4 @ 100 ea, the upgrade was modfied to something like:

Add 2 or 4 Land Raiders to the formation - 175 for 2, 375 (350?) for 4

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:40 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 27 2007,12:27)
QUOTE
I take it you mean the original plus the proposed tweaks one? (As opposed to E&C's infantry price cut idea.)

I'll use the doc linked in post 62.
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