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NetEA Marine upgrades
Fortis
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Wasn't the whole point of this change that Land Raiders weren't worth 100 points...? So the feeling is that one will be worth it for 100, and that 2 will be worth it for 175... I just can't see myself using them for that mere point reduction.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:21 pm 
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An 85pt (95pt if you include the 10pt Rhino) is just fine if you use FF4+ (and only ever take them in pairs). The non-25pt division just bugs me.

But it's better than no change at all. *shrug*




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Chroma
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 27 2010, 13:21 )

An 85pt (95pt if you include the 10pt Rhino) is just fine if you use FF4+ (and only ever take them in pairs). The non-25pt division just bugs me.

But it's better than no change at all. *shrug*

Are Land Raiders, even with upgraded stats, worth 95 points?  

It seems to me the "phantom" ten points of the replaced Rhino is being missed when working out the price for the unit.  At 75 points each, listed cost, it's still more "expensive" than a Chaos Land Raider due to that swap... that's why it's fine at 75 points.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:41 pm 
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I agree that 75pts is probably a better price point for it (evidence: Land Raiders are still not performing amazingly at EpicUK tournaments)... but Hena's mind appears made up.

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zombocom
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ Jan. 27 2010, 13:55 )

That Rhino issue is complicated as it doesn't affect all formations. To be exact there is two who can take the ugprade: Devs and Terminators. Devs get Rhino, Terminators don't. So taking that into account means that it will cost differently to them both.

Sure, but how much is teleport worth? The Terminators are giving it up by taking LR.

It's at least 10 points per base, which is twice the rhino cost per base.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Terminators lose Teleport, which is a lot more costly than losing a few 10pt Rhinos.

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Chroma
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ Jan. 27 2010, 13:55 )

That Rhino issue is complicated as it doesn't affect all formations. To be exact there is two who can take the ugprade: Devs and Terminators. Devs get Rhino, Terminators don't. So taking that into account means that it will cost differently to them both.

Actually, Terminators are "trading in" their teleport ability when they buy Land Raiders, so, that would seem to be a "sacrifice" as well, and shouldn't require different point values.

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Morgan Vening
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:29 am 
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Quote: (zombocom @ Jan. 27 2010, 13:59 )

Quote: (Hena @ Jan. 27 2010, 13:55 )

That Rhino issue is complicated as it doesn't affect all formations. To be exact there is two who can take the ugprade: Devs and Terminators. Devs get Rhino, Terminators don't. So taking that into account means that it will cost differently to them both.

Sure, but how much is teleport worth? The Terminators are giving it up by taking LR.

It's at least 10 points per base, which is twice the rhino cost per base.

That's a really great analysis. I wish I had thought of it.  :p

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Onyx
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:12 am 
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Well Teleport is worth 25pts in the Scions of Iron list...

75pts is still the best option from my point of view.

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GR00V3R
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:32 am 
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Just to throw something in outta left field here...maybe they should stay 100pts, but be DC2 WEs. That would also address the "fluff" issue (that they're just not hardcore like they're supposed to be).  :)

Given a Thunderhawk, which is better armed, carries three times as many dudes, and can fly, is DC2 and 200pts, I'm thinking 100pts for a DC2 Land Raider is pretty close to the mark.

Let the flaming begin...  :sign1:
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frogbear
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:23 am 
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Quote: (GR00V3R @ Jan. 28 2010, 18:32 )

Just to throw something in outta left field here...maybe they should stay 100pts, but be DC2 WEs. That would also address the "fluff" issue (that they're just not hardcore like they're supposed to be).  :)

Given a Thunderhawk, which is better armed, carries three times as many dudes, and can fly, is DC2 and 200pts, I'm thinking 100pts for a DC2 Land Raider is pretty close to the mark.

Let the flaming begin...  :sign1:

Um, so they can barge two models?

So they can FF and CC with 2 dice?

Let me think about this for a moment........   No!

Flame off   :devil:

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GR00V3R
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:48 am 
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125 each, then?  :laugh:
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frogbear
 Post subject: NetEA Marine upgrades
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ Jan. 28 2010, 19:53 )

I do admit that this argument for 75 is pretty good. One thing is that most other lists don't take these into account (for example Chaos Terminators).

Yes, because ATSKNF is such a crappy skill....

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