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NetEA Marine list planned changes
alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:08 pm 
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I thought dptdexys answer here ?to a query from rug as to what non non-official rules where used at the last Open War was illuminating.

The point really being, I think, that the only home for rules, suitable for tournament play, for GW games, is GW. At least with a healthy, dynamic, and open, playing population that is. If you have a small, static clique then I don't think there's the same problem. Random people coming into Epic from say Warhammer 40k would expect the GW publish rules to be *the* rules.

Either these fixes must be made official or tournament organisers must make an explicit decision, and an explicit and loud announcment that a close variant (e.g. Net EA) is to be played instead.

-------

I'm going to shut right up now




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alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:32 pm 
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After we've presented fixes (that we believe can be published now) to Jervis - and he declines them.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Either these fixes must be made official or tournament organisers must make an explicit decision, and an explicit and loud announcment that a close variant (e.g. Net EA) is to be played instead.


I agree with this completely.  That's why I think that a condensed set of "tweaks" which can be easily referenced and included in event announcements would be of use to the Epic community, online and offline.  It would make the "explicit and loud announcement" part very simple.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Everything on this page makes sense.

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Markconz
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:19 am 
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(Ginger @ Apr. 09 2008,11:12)
QUOTE
Markonz / CS

Have we changed the Handbook to contain only those rule changes approved by Jervis (so reversing out changes that were rejected)? If not, could this be done ASAP?

I've basically done this and passed to the NetERC to finalise as they wish (so questions to them are best).

I've made it line with Jervis's changes only though. There is nothing in there in the way of NetERC changes (or prior changes) in a different colour or anything like that. It is intended for the vault as per Jervis's instructions.

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alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:21 am 
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(nealhunt @ Apr. 09 2008,21:59)
QUOTE
Either these fixes must be made official or tournament organisers must make an explicit decision, and an explicit and loud announcment that a close variant (e.g. Net EA) is to be played instead.


I agree with this completely. ?That's why I think that a condensed set of "tweaks" which can be easily referenced and included in event announcements would be of use to the Epic community, online and offline. ?It would make the "explicit and loud announcement" part very simple.

That is possible but I'm not sure it's likely to happen. You have three choices.

1) Play GW Epic A - all rules from the SG site - no unnoficial tweeks

2) Play GW Epic A - most rules from the SG site with a few non official tweaks from here

3) Play Net Epic A - all source material comes from this site not SG, ignore the SG stuff (even though there's not a huge difference)

I may be wrong but if if this site does (and is allowed to) host a complete version of the game, I actually think option 3 is more likely to happen than 2 in the UK; less confusion

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:52 am 
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Currently, the UK tournaments organised by Matt Otter spring for number 2.

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alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:01 am 
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Actually he goes for number 1.

He doesn't use any tweaks, either to the rules or any army lists. The things he does have as additional are clarifications where the SG FAQ and erratas are lacking.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:07 am 
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His 'FAQ' is really some FAQ's and rules changes mixed together.

For example he specifically allows the Rhino-Drop Pod swap for Marines, despite that being a change to the rules... there are a few other examples mixed into his FAQ too.

Thought of another one; Matt had 'may not end within 5cm of an enemy if you're fearless and broken at the FSA tournament, before it became official...

I'm sure I spotted quite a few more, so yeah, Matt's tourneys are very definitely in catagory 2, if only marginally so.

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alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:23 am 
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At the time Matt decided on the Rhino-Drop pod swap the rules where not clear. It wasn't a change just a clarification to resolve a big heated argument.

Now the rules are clear - no swap allowed - so you may find he drops this.

As for the fearless one, well yeah this is a bit more gray. The point was though that he included this only because he had to. The fearless cheat was doing serious damage to the game.

He also made a ruling concerning eldar Warp-gates. Again for the purposes of smooth running.

Overall Matt only makes changes / rulings in order to maintain the smooth running of the games and reduce disruption. Not for general improvements to the game.

Option 2 includes rules changes from here such as -25 to the cost of a Land Raider, Dreadnought armough 3+, etc etc. The problems with these units doen't disrupt tournies and Matt is very unlikely to include them in his rulespack.

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zombocom
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:27 am 
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(alansa @ Apr. 10 2008,11:23)
QUOTE
Option 2 includes rules changes from here such as -25 to the cost of a Land Raider, Dreadnought armough 3+, etc etc. The problems with these units doen't disrupt tournies and Matt is very unlikely to include them in his rulespack.

Actually I'd say that was more option 3. Option 2 says "a few" changes from here/elsewhere, and that's exactly what the rules posted are.

If it was all/most of the changes from here/elsewhere then it'd come under option 3.

Option 1 as you have posted it is literally no changes at all.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:28 am 
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He also made a ruling concerning eldar Warp-gates. Again for the purposes of smooth running.


He made a ruling there that went against the wishes of the appointed Eldar Champion, and a community vote, IIRC?

Option 2 includes rules changes from here such as -25 to the cost of a Land Raider, Dreadnought armough 3+, etc etc. The problems with these units doen't disrupt tournies and Matt is very unlikely to include them in his rulespack.

I don't contend that Matt's rulings are only marginal compared to some of the proposals!

I just wanted to be clear that Matt has been prepared to make new rules on occasion before, at least in a small way, which puts his tournies into category 2, IMHO. :)

EDIT:

As Zombocom says more succinctly above, Matt's tournys could only be catagory 1 if there were no changes or faq's on his part at all... as his tournament pack has/had 2/3 pages of rules changes and clarifications, then he's firmly into category 2.

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alansa
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:36 am 
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Perhaps, but I've only known him do it for the purposes of smooth running - and not to enhance the game in any other way, which in the main is what the Net ERC is about.

Naturally, all tournament organisers must make certain rulings to ensure there is no serious friction... This happens anyway, regardless of whether they want to play a variant or standard ruleset.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:43 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 10 2008,11:28)
QUOTE
He also made a ruling concerning eldar Warp-gates. Again for the purposes of smooth running.


He made a ruling there that went against the wishes of the appointed Eldar Champion, and a community vote, IIRC?

Somebody shouldn't have parked a Uge Speed Freak mob over his Wraithgate with about half his army waiting to come through it as their first activation then now should they. ?:devil:

In most cases the FAQ / Clarifications that Matt has added to his rules pack have been discussed by players at the tournament where the problem/duplicate interpretations have been encountered.

For instance the Marine transport question was raised by Biggles and we had a frantic 15 minutes before the first round canvassing opinion from other players. An initial go ahead was given then which was followed up by a good debate on the forums.

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