My point is the list is already spammable in a number of ways. 10x LS fms with scout and MW firing/ff is far more problematic I would have thought not to mention the extra number of activations....

Considering most of your army would be ff5+ cc6+ with no ground aa, I'm not sure you'd do too well with that.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It is an interesting comparison Dobbsy - LS get an additional unit, skimmer, MW and slightly faster, though much more limited range, lower to-hit-values and fewer shots, 'different' assault stats and no access to other vehicle upgrades. And the LV / AV point is very significant in that to be effective, LS have to get "up close and personal" - which nearly always means exposing themselves to enemy shooting where their LV status is a big liability. I would love the statisticians among us to crunch some numbers on this comparison rather than on the LR - Pred comparison, as I suspect there is likely to be ~ 75-100 points difference between the formations.
The obvious danger of these points reductions on the LR and Pred etc is that it encourages the thought of dropping the cost of the LS and other formations as well.

Ultimately the Marine list has several ways to be played (and yes it does deliberately focus on air capability), but people tend to ignore the creative uses of the LC in favour of the more obvious "Assault" alternatives. These "creative" uses actually add considerable edge to some of the apparently mundane Marine AV formations. Consider this as an option:- Use a LC to planetfall on the centreline transporting Pred+upgrades, Termies and Assault marines. The Preds sustain when they arrive, then next activation the Termies double into position and shoot, Assault Marines retain for an assault - and the LC can also activate at some point. When this occurs on the flank of the main Marine ground thrust, this can be very potent - but it does require carefull planning and timing (and some luck). And consequently it is a less used style of play (at least in the UK) not least because it requires practice to understand and evolve the tactics to realise its full potential.

And, while this strategy is using air and space capability, in reality this tactic is supplementary to a "Ground-pounding" force rather than an "Air assault" force.

(edited for spelling)

you've just used up your two activations and now it's time for the enemy to have his own activations... Can't see predators being game winners there...

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well, the Preds and Hunter (and possibly Vindi if in range) have got off a lot of sustained shots, while the Termies and AM could certainly be gaining cover from the LC if not lurking out of sight behind it.

As estate agents might say, "Locatioin, location, location"
(of your forces, the enemy and the terrain)

^^^^ This.

With the templars I quite often planet fall a LC with Preds + Hunters onto the centrline to provide an AA Umbrella for my retain air engagement, particulary useful against enemy fighters on CAP. If you've read your opponent and the terrain well and made a good educated guess the Barrage usually preps the retain air assault too.

The Predators and landed LC become useful in later activations having a 30 cm move and decent firepower/ armour and having pretty much got a free move half way up the table into range of the opponent. Going after the smaller "Time waster/annoying" fms like Sentinels, Rangers, scouts etc is usually what I do with the Preds and landed LC in the first turn to win an activation advantage in the following turns. It's also worth noting that in the third turn when all the air assaults etc are down and marines are normally quite slow, it's really nice being able to move 90cm onto an objective from the centre of the table or engage something 45 cm away and claim an objective + the LC comes into it's own in later turn when it can land, almost with impunity and either engage things or form a strong firepoint around which to base other engagements.

(Sorry for rambling now but in one big game i played in, a LC landed in between 2 Ulani Russ fms, added BMs and then supported 2 engagements later in the turn that allowed 2 scout units to engage and beat both Russ fms and completely clear a flank/ 2 x objectives.)

Note, I don't think you are allowed to use two Hunter upgrades on the same formation
Also I have corrected some spelling in the quote you used.

They can in the updated E-UK BT list.

It was a response to the fact that having to take a spaceship and not having access to the cheaper fms such as scouts and warhounds and lacking the ever-reliable TBs left BTs horribly vulnerable to Air to an extent that wasn't intended.

TBF though My sum total AA in that list is 2 x Hunters and the defensive AA of THs and LCs which is still much less than most marine armies.

I played a game against Marines last week, with him using the 300 point LR formations. He took 2 formations (and a bunch of Tacticals in L.Raiders, but that's off topic) and it was challenging. He even used Landing Craft to drop them up in my face, along with supporting units. While it was challenging, I didn't feel like I was being swarmed with heavy armor, and the game was a loss for the SM player, 3-1 I believe. (BTS, T&H, DtF vs BTS) Since the upgrade costs aren't dropping to 50 or anything absurd, most LR formations are still just going to be 4 vehicles. They have solid AT ability, but lack the AP firepower and range of a Leman Russ group.

Thanks for the feedback Signal.

I know this is a 6 month old thread and the new lists are done but, I was looking at the size of a "new land raider" as until now i have only had old "space marine" ones and well they are huge. What would happen if land raiders could be War engines with say a DC of 2. Apart from everyone going crazy. What would it cost 125 pts like a macharius less? more?

I know size doesnt matter in 40k but land raiders are supposed to be these amazing things and well the way it is now the reason you dont see them in the 40k universe is not because "some forge world was lost" but well they aren't that good.

I know the usual way is to make stuff cheaper, what about more expensive and tougher?, maybe an option to upgrade them to venerable or something.

It's been brought up before and it has all sorts of issues in terms of transportation etc. that makes it awkward.

TBH I've played them a few times now and they're pretty much right at 325 points. They put out decent firepower as a formation and are fairly hardnosed but not super tough as a group of 4.
The slightly lower cost allows you field them a little easier and thus increase their use in games.

No, I agree dobbsy the reduced point cost does seem fair. I just knew people had thought about it before...they always have (there is nothing new under the sun). I was just wondering what a LR WE at 125pts say would do. It would make those seperate LR transporter units etc and other weird effects. probably not worth the trouble. Great work by the way on the list.