Dreadknights are basically like fast CC dreadnoughts- like jumppack furiosos with token guns added- or baby mecha. not the same really. Dreadnoughts as upgrades are usedful for garrison troops or formations transported by storm raven, dreadknights as upgrades can be added to a grey knights strike squad to teleport with them, and as added to upgrades to a formation that has rhinos, can keep up with the mobility of the formation.
I know a lot of people are rah rah rah about the release of the 40k models, but hey- haters gonna hate. they are here to stay!

My view on terminators/paladins is to drop terminators and keep palaldins- paladin stats more reflect the elite terminators of grey knights with fearless. Or just drop the paladin name keep paladin stats call them GKT.

I don't mind purifier squads going, maybe keeping them as a +2 unit formation upgrade options for strike squads, although they may have to be something like +75pt ea

fortitude- maybe can go. but it works fine in this incarnation.

I actually should remove planetfall from arvus/aquila keeping them as skimmers- thinking of fluff, they should already be on-world, they don't travel with the strike cruiser.
I honestly don't see the point of removing one or the other. Shall I remove razorbacks too? they're almost the same as rhinos. Arvus/Aquila are only ever used in the same formation, it's not confusing.



I think you misunderstand me- they are included in the list for fluff reasons primarily- they are at the forefront of daemonic incursion investigation, and the inquisitors are the ones who call in the grey knights to battle.
The grey knights are to the rescue, as it were. I was merely trying to explain why I do not want to have super powerful Inquisitor units in the list- that would actually be going against the fluff (as it has been tramped on by Mat Ward), if they were to be made more battlefield-capable than the grey knights, with the inclusion of assassins, etc.

I agree about the landers - I think the Arvus is pretty much the pointless one. I'd never take it if I can get a weapon load instead with the Aquila.

I agree about the number of infantry types. I would probably ditch the purgation squad it's not entirely necessary due to the strike squad really. The extra psycannon probably isn't enough to grant the +1FF IMO.

The Termies/Paladins - just keep the termies and give them 2x psycannons and drop fearless. At best, just make a paladin upgrade which grants fearless or invulnerable save to a couple of units in the formation instead.

typo/nit-picking - Supreme Commander grants the leader ability automatically so listing it in the reference sheet for the Grand master isn't necessary.

Purgation Squats should have Indirect Fire and stated in the Notes that they don't double their range and that they have no minimum range when firing indirect. After all their very own psychic power (Astral Sight?) lets them ignore LOS.

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Also: CC4+ and FF3+ on Strike and Interceptor Squads ? Wouldn't be CC3+ and FF4+ be more fitting? Or 3+ for both? After all they have Stormbolters (as Terminators) and are formidable CC-opponents (as Assault Marines but better).

Hmph...now that i have finished the Codex i'm almost in the mood to write my own list with my own stats....butit wouldn't be THAT different from this list here.

Grey Knight weapons calculated with the WhES:

Incinerator 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Heavy Incinerator 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Psycannon 30cm AP4+/AT5+
Heavy Psycannon 30cm AP4+/AT5+
Psilencer (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack(+1)
Gatling Psilencer (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attacks (+2)
Mindstrike Missile 75cm AP5+ One-Shot

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Black Legion- Strike and interceptor also have +1 extra attack in base to base. Two 3+ attacks in assault isn't a good time for your opponent on non-terminator 'basic' troops, if their cost isn't going to jump.

Purgation squads- I didn't do the elysian mortar thing at the moment, due to not wanting to add a special rule in there- how is acceptance of that type of wording for indirect going with players do you know? Also did not want to have Psycannons on Purgation squad that have different stats to psycannons of other squads for confusions sake (Unless they becom renamed to Astral Aim Psycannons ... it's not that becoming of a name though!)

Dobbsy, the +1 FF for the psycannons on the purgation squads is tied in with their astral aim ability from the codex (they use psychic powers to guide their heavy wepons fire accurately in buildings and bunkers, between trees, into the darkness etc etc. Not specifically like a barrage firing over in an arc, and not like a weapon that ignores cover like a flamer [codex specificaly states that all shots out of line of site gain a cover save] but more like a smart warhead.)

On terminators- having fearless core troops if i went with the stats of Paladins as terminators... I don't like the situation and i'm sure not many else would either. Perhaps I should just be boring and stat them back to normal space marine terminators :-) and cut Paladins off (a terminator stand with a grand master, is probably the best way you can show Paladins in the list anyways).

On further troops consolidation- I think that purifiers can be cut, and Interceptor squads can swap their Psilencer weapon for the purifier's Incinerator. This changes the Interceptors' usage but lets them fill in what purifiers do. I agree that the Incinerator stats should probably be AP4+ - they are bloody close to a flamestorm cannon!

@FF/C Oops overlooked the Extra Attacks

@Purgation: If you don't want to change the name of the weapon just add in the Notes that the unit doesn't need LOS if carrying out a Sustain action (or generally doesn't need LOS if firing/FF-ing).

@Interceptor: And give them Speed 30cm as their speed in Wh40k is no different (if not fadter!) than regular Junppack units.

@Incinerator: Well AP4+ is the to-hit number for Heavy Flamers. Incinerators have +1 Strength compared to them in Wh40k wich makes them the same as a Hellhound's Inferno Gun with shorter range (the Flamestorm Cannon also has better Armourpiercing capabilities!). Inferno Gun and Flamestorm Cannon have AP3+ in Epic (all with Ignore Cover off course).

@Psycannons: They are pretty close to Plasma Cannons (only Armourpiercing is not as good as on the Plasma Cannon). The WhES makes Plasma Cannons AP4+/AT6+ but Rending on the Psycannon gives it AP4+/AT5+.
Well Epic has Plasma Cannons at AP4+/AT4+ so make what you will out of this

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Interceptors- I'm wary of making them too fast, because the dreadknights are also using personal teleporters. Making dreadknights moving 30/35cm in combination with MW CC attacks is gonna be a bit too much for 100 pts I feel after playing them a few times. Already i don't exactly like that Interceptors can use the 15cm jump pack assault flying transport rule, and I'm not sure they deserve a 10cm countercharge rule either, from a fluff perspective they are described as being able to teleport in hops across the battlefield using the personal teleporter but I'm not sure that it feels like they they should get all of the brute force cream on top that goes with jump packs and the normal 35cm move.

I had other ideas for personal teleporters (such as normally having a 15cm move and being able to march like 35cm jump infantry, or allowing the unit to teleport again at the beginning of each turn) but it would involve making a special rule up for the sake of two units and be a bit compex.

Psycannons I think function much more like assault cannons as statted on a space marine dreadnought than plasma cannons. That also leaves nice room for twin linked psycannon on vehicles to move up to AP4/AT4. Dont forget that psycannons have two statlines in 40k, to suit whether they are being used as an assault weapon whilst on the run (assault 2) or when standing (heavy 4). I believe that suits AP5+/AT5+ nicely, as it become AP4+/AT4+ when sustained firing.

LOL, forgeworld just released a pdf to update their Warhammer 40,000 grey knights and inquisition models (including TL psycannon vehicle upgrade)

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/P ... htsupd.pdf



YEAH MAN, OR you can just use the codex 5pt Psybolt upgrade that turns the assault cannons into exactly those stats...

No one ever claimed FW produced balanced rules. Or occasionally rules that make sense.

Pretty amusing nonetheless.

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Actually it's 30cm not 35cm.
As personal teleporter is only an optional upgrade for the Dreadknight i would leave it off and give the Dreadknight a Speed of 15cm just as a Dreadnought.
BTW (Gatling) Psilencers are just pimped up Hurricane Bolters.

I based the WhES stats of the Psycannon on Heavy 4. The Assault 2 version would indeed have AP5+/AT5+. But remember that Terminators always fire in Heavy 4 mode.

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regular grey knights also get psycannons- as a matter of balance and in the interest of keeping stats the same across the weapons with so many of them available across the list, it currently feels better with AP5 not AP4 as so many buckets of AP4 fre feels a tad abusive.

And actually it's 35cm not 30cm if you're talking assault marine movement? in the official GW book anyway

Assault marines move 30cm.

If I go here they move 35 http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... _Oct09.pdf
If i go to NetEA version the move 30 most players round our club/area use rulebook space marines. potato/potato

Only Skimmers have 35cm. 35cm on Assault Marines is a typo.

On Ap-Spam: Well grey Knights ARE infantry killers. It's vehicles they have some problems with.

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30cm might be cool for personal teleporters. I will give it a try out when I playtest next (I may release a 1.1 playtest document this weekend)

Dreadknights, I wish to keep with personal teleporters, as I don't want them used as static garrissons like a dreadnought, or to become a silly baseline babysitter like stompas.