Also a note on the Land Raider Prometheus:
While his ability to ignore the range restriction of the Commander ability was never used in the turney the possibility that he could posed a significant thread on my opponents (so they said).

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Yes it is a good thing and not an overpowered one too.

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So have we come to an agreement (or flat out ruling) on the Multimelta for the LRC? It seems weak that the actual tank has a multimelta but we'd prefer to ditch the weapon because we can't agree on a to-hit stat etc.

Unfortunately, as so many here will reply, the Multi Melta is an optional weapon for the LR Crusader in 40K. Even though, as I've pointed out before, when was the last time anyone saw a LR Crusader without a Multi Melta?

I'd really like to see the Melta weapon stay on the Crusader. It is as much part of a Crusader as the Hurricane Bolters.

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Actually quite a few of us want it gone for balance reasons. With it, the crusader is just flat-out better than a normal land raider. As Onyx mentions, it's an option in 40k, not something that comes with the tank, and these are rarely included at epic scale.

Hena agreed with this, but instead of removing it he just removed the ranged shot. This was a half-way-house that pleased noone.

Zombocom speaks the truth.

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This line reminds me of Labyrinth:

Hello all. One of my first posts here and appoligies if I missed this in an earlier discussion:

I was musing over the Land Raider Crusaders Frag Assault Charges (and by association, those on the Redeemer) and saw in Scions of Iron that they're treated as Assault Weapons. But I'm wondering if that really keeps to the intent of that system? The Frag Assault Charges were meant to suppress a defensive line and allow the Land Raider's dismounts to assault directly with the defenses suppressed.

Now, I know most wish to keep with the existing rules and not add new stuff when possible, but maybe this needs to be treated as a unit special ability and not a weapon. As a completely untested concept:

Assault Vehicle: Some AFVs are designed specifically for carrying infantry and discharging them right into the teeth of a defensive line. To give their dismounts cover they use a variety of means; directional fragmentation charges, concussive force waves, concussion and flash bombs. Whatever the means, they provide the dismounting infantry critical moments to assault. A unit with the Assault Vehicle trait that conducts a charge move grants it's transported infantry the First Strike trait if they dismount at the end of the charge and into a close combat condition. This only applies if the the dismounting transported unit will enter combat into base-to-base with a defender, and only on that first round of the Assault.

So there it is. Probably badly written and clunky as Hell. But, comments and observations appreciated. Figure a trait like this would be applied to the Land Raider Crusader and Redeemer, and Land Speeder Storm.

It's certainly an interesting proposal.

However, I would be wary of inventing extra special rules to cover the abilities of only one or two units in the game, far better to "cheat" if possible and use the standard rules in a unique combination to approximate a similar effect, in my humble opinion...

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Very true and I certainly understand that. Just figured it was something to consider and fit the concept of Frag Assault Charges, Cerberus Launchers, and such better.

And it's not like this would be the first trait that only applied to a very few units. Teleport for instance. Only seen, in official lists that is, with Terminators and Swooping Hawks if memory serves.

But, out of curiosity does the Assault Vehicle trait fit better? Is it unbalanced? Could it work with further tweaking? Or am I just showing signs those head injuries I took in my days as an Army Lawn Dart are worsening?

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I would worry that it is quite conditional, and thus wouldn't be likely to see a great ammount of tabletop usage.

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Very true. Admittedly it's a very special condition rule. But they are for very specialist vehicles. In a way, it may make it more attractive to take a Crusader or Redeemer over a basic Land Raider in some scenarios. Something like this is good if the scenario has you as the Astartes player going up against a dug-in foe. Or useful for shock assaulting into an opponent with numerous CC-Stong units, such as Orks or Tyranids.

Maybe a test by those who are gaming now? I'd try it m'self now, but limited on time and resources as I am prep'ing to deploy again.

Win the Mind, Win the Day
Airborne All The Way

Nice concept and would really fit the Land Rauder Crusader, Land Raider Redeemer and Land Speeder Storm. At least it would make Terminators in Land Raiders an interesting choice.
I would test it if i had players.

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Danke. As the LR Crusader is written up now, see them charging into CC, which they are not meant too. Think the currently proposal cautres thespirit without taking from

ModEdit: Moved to proper thread.