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Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
Mephiston
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:32 pm 
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I'll help you out here and let you know that ginger and biggles are one and the same person with multiple online personae!
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:42 pm 
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That's okay I'm 'Harbish' over on the SG forums. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:45 pm 
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(Dobbsy @ Oct. 17 2007,00:55)
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So one bloke has decided that he doesn't like it (as you say, a rules lawyer) and now we have to overhaul it when it really hasn't been a problem in the past? I think the fact that it's been brought up by a known "rules lawyer" in the first place, should have people wondering just why they are now annoyed by the rule.

Actually, the chap who discovered this possibility (Ginger/Biggles) seems to be in favour of allowing the swap, as a way of boosting the power of Marine armies.

In fact, IIRC he was also in favour of allowing Razorbacks to be left off the table at deployment time in order to allow Drop Pods to be selected...

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:46 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Oct. 17 2007,11:32)
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I'll help you out here and let you know that ginger and biggles are one and the same person with multiple online personae!

Okay - then make that 9 to 16.  :D Unless you want to count his multiple personalities...

I don't! :angry:     I do!  :)    I'm just going to pretend I'm a fire engine. :devil:

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:51 pm 
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Beard length aside I am beginning to wonder if the handicap of keeping this tactic open, ie leaving razorbacks  off table if drop podding or buying a space ship that you dont use, is its own handicap.  

Someone who really engineers his list to this sort of flexibility is going to have sub optimal choices in the list and waste points so Im not convinced of how effective it will really be.  I would come down on the side of RAW.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:52 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Oct. 17 2007,16:46)
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I don't! :angry:     I do!  :)    I'm just going to pretend I'm a fire engine. :devil:

Ah, is that what your avatar is.  A twisted, twisted fire engine :p

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Sytoru
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:59 pm 
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I'll throw my hat into the "against" camp. Why? Well, several reasons. GW as a company don't build easter eggs into their rules and the harder you have to look to find them the less the chance is that it is an intentional part of the game. Hell, it's not something that I'd even considered could be legal.
  From a tournament point of view; I think that the roster that you hand in is the complete roster of models that you will be using and how they are grouped into formations (units for 40k). Any rules that allow you to "mix and match" will be explicitly stated, for example not listing Rhinos or Drop Pods so that you could Garrison your Tacs or put them into an available T'hawk. None of this "Well I won't use my Rhinos and Razorbacks this time since I want them arriving via the T'Hawk." The same goes for switching out Rhinos for Drop Pods. So what if they don't cost any points to equip the formations with them? It is still a matter of army selection and this is what you do when you create your roster.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:34 pm 
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(Sytoru @ Oct. 17 2007,16:59)
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I'll throw my hat into the "against" camp. Why? Well, several reasons. GW as a company don't build easter eggs into their rules and the harder you have to look to find them the less the chance is that it is an intentional part of the game. Hell, it's not something that I'd even considered could be legal.

Well, change my vote to "against" for Tournament games, because, and I know this is a surprising thing on the Internet, the above actually convinced me.

I see it, by the rules as written, as allowed, but I do believe it was an oversight, not an intentional wording, that allows it.  So, for Tournaments, swapping unit shouldn't be allowed, fixed, fully written lists of specific formations.

In friendly, one-off games, do what you will.

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Otterman
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:36 pm 

(Sytoru @ Oct. 17 2007,10:59)
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GW as a company don't build easter eggs into their rules and the harder you have to look to find them the less the chance is that it is an intentional part of the game. Hell, it's not something that I'd even considered could be legal.

Well said. This has the ring of truth about. That is, it rings true.

It seems to me that the models that will be placed on the table should not be changed after the other player sets up.  Possible exception: Tyranid spawning.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:42 pm 
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(Otterman @ Oct. 17 2007,17:36)
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It seems to me that the models that will be placed on the table should not be changed after the other player sets up. ?Possible exception: Tyranid spawning.

Well, with Tyranid Spawning, you can still only use models/units that you've already purchased with points... you never actually create anything "new".

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Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:00 pm 
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(Otterman @ Oct. 17 2007,17:36)
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It seems to me that the models that will be placed on the table should not be changed after the other player sets up. ?Possible exception: Tyranid spawning.
To be fair, this transport choice is made before any formations are placed on the table


(Chroma @ Oct. 17 2007,17:42)
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Well, with Tyranid Spawning, you can still only use models/units that you've already purchased with points... you never actually create anything "new".
And you are not creating anything "new" here either - essentially you are discarding things that you have bought as part of the initial army selection.




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Chroma
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:11 pm 
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(Ginger @ Oct. 17 2007,18:00)
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And you are not creating anything "new" here either - essentially you are discarding things that you have bought as part of the initial army selection.

I have only a mild problem with the "discarding" units issue, which is tangental to the Drop Pod/Rhino swap. (Marines are allowed to "discard" their Rhinos, but I'm not sure other armies can "leave behind" units.)

For example with the Marines:  your opponent is taking model out before the game, would you be kosher with them placing their Tacticals out with their Rhinos, then noticing you have have a horde of Orks, putting the Rhinos back in their case, and putting down Drop Pods instead?

Which were purchased at initial army selection, Drop Pods or Rhinos?  Is this some kind of "Schr?dinger's cat" issue?  *laugh*

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:23 pm 
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Is this some kind of "Schr?dinger's cat" issue?
 That's hilarious!

The method of transportation is in a state of flux between Rhino and Pod until the opponents forces are identified and a maxmum thickness of cheese can be applied to the game.  Only then does the transportation mode manifest itself physically.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself... :devil:

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Charad
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Chroma
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:36 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Oct. 17 2007,18:23)
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The method of transportation is in a state of flux between Rhino and Pod until the opponents forces are identified and a maxmum thickness of cheese can be applied to the game. ?Only then does the transportation mode manifest itself physically.

Actually, there's a *third* waveform it could collapse to... nothing there at all!

Nice Ulthw? cat there Charad, or is it a Black Templar mascot?

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