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Simple vote - one list or two
Current list plus tweaks (see below for explanation) 63%  63%  [ 27 ]
Combined air/ground list (see below for explanation) 26%  26%  [ 11 ]
Two different air/ground lists (see below for explanation) 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 43

Simple vote - one list or two

 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:33 am 
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Well......  :D

Take solace in your 100% record with Eldar!

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:48 am 
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Well my winspan with Eldar isn't 100% :D
3 games in total. 2 won (SM, Tyranids) 1 lost (SM)
But the Tyranid victory was against an inexpierenced player.





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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:51 am 
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Blarg D Impaler
I don't support a "mud-marine" and an "air assault" marine list split. ?It severely goes against background and doesn't make sense. ?There aren?t two different versions of the Codex Astartes, and we should not have two different versions of a Codex army.


I also don't favour a split list currently, but to be fair I can see no reason why two codex lists can't be made. Each focusing on a different style of fighting - each represents a different part of the codex. As I've indicated before, from a development point of view, it might actually be easier to go about it this way. And again this has nothing to do with the exceptional chapters.

BlackLegion
Hmmm are mud-mariens really that bad?
My regular opponend never uses droppods, transport-flyers or flyers.


I myself have only one thunderhawk and a few thunderbolts (but I think non transports flyers are discounted in this argument), and my usual marine opponent has never used any airdrop stuff against me (though he does have some)

Why is that the case? because that's what we got for previous editions of epic and I for one have not painted a single new marine unit since EA came out. ?

Perhaps another poll is neccessary. If it ain't broke then don't fix it. So we have to find out if it's broke first.





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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:08 pm 
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(alansa @ Apr. 26 2007,15:51)
QUOTE
Perhaps another poll is neccessary. If it ain't broke then don't fix it. So we have to find out if it's broke first.

The only broke stuff is the items under review for nerfing - slight power downs for terminators and landing craft and big power downs for the only really 'broken' list which is the Drop Pod Army Of Death tm (scouts) and the support of the Warhound Quartet Of Doom tm.

In essence this is 5 detechments of suicide drop pod scouts plus strike cruiser (950 points), 4 warhounds (normally singles but perhaps 2 singles and a pair) (1000 points) and 1050 points or stuff to support them (terminators, thunderhawks and interesting cargos etc).

You saturate the entire enemy deployment zone with orbital bombardment, 5+ deathwind attacks and blast markers, have the warhounds take out forward garrissons and have you teleporting termies and air attacks zapping everything else.

The only armies that can avoid this are the ones that can pretty much all garrisson forward (eg Ork foot army) which then becomes a 50/50 chance of getting hammered and you still have to deal with the warhounds off loading in your face (cunning players stick the enemy objectives on the mid table point to enable this), have a spacecraft and pray they win the roll for the first turn, or are trying to do it themselves.

A less powerful varient is one that does away with the scout suicide attack and instead has Marine Landers and thunderhawks and their cargos turning up in a similar fashion - again supported by the 4 warhounds. Still very deadly - a properly kitted out Lander can knock pretty much anything on the head.

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:49 pm 
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Add to that:

7) Change Land Speeder Tornado upgrade from 10pts to 'free'.

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:00 pm 
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(Hena @ May 04 2007,12:43)
QUOTE
5) "And They Shall Know No Fear"
- Number of BMs in assault resolution is halved (round down), but marines cannot get +1 from not having BMs if there is 1BM.

Number of BMs in assault resolution is halved (rounding fractions up). ?

Less clumsy and clunky.

Though actually why not just simply make it same as the rest of the 'they shall know no fear' rule?  

"Number of BMs in assault resolution is halved (round down)"

Marines ignore a single blast marker for almost all other purposes - doesn't suppress, doesn't kill when broken, doesn't break, so why not here as well?  A single BM isn't going to slow down the mighty marines!  :cool:

Only other thing I wonder about - why does the vindi have walker??

(Also I notice that the universal rounding rule doesn't actually exist in the EA rules - shame...  maybe you can have your round down rule for 3 DC nids Hena...  :;):  The 'rounding rule' even states there are exceptions on page 29 - though obviously we should try and avoid them I think )

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:18 pm 
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Full rouding down make the air assault too good (as you have a problem of getting more 1BM to an attacking Thunderhawk).


Yeah ok.  :)

Only other thing I wonder about - why does the vindi have walker??
Makes it more effective in urban environment.

Yes... but once again I ask why does it have walker!?  :p What is your justification for a close assault tank being as mobile as a dreadnought in urban terrain?

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:27 pm 
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The Vindicator has a big damn bulldozer scoop on the front. :D

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Yes...but only if the Vindicator doesn't drive very slow it will transform it in a bit of malformed metal.
Never seen a bulldozer which drives more than walking speed.

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Because its sci fi metal bulldozer. You've never seen a mono molecular bonded adamentium plate bulldozer blade at work have you?

Hena try the scout/drop pod/4 warhound army. Just cover every inch of the enemy deployment zone with fire, nothing fancy and continue from there. Not funny, not clever. Dead easy to fix (and also improve the wording of the transport special rule and remove the FAQ entries!). I really hope it doesn't get to a situation where few believe me and I have to do it at a tourney. Me and Biggles might even have an elder vs marine bat rap demonstrating it on here somewhere.

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:35 pm 
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I believe 'ya Chris... it's one of the reasons that I'd charge a premium for any drop-podding formation. :D

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 Post subject: Simple vote - one list or two
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:26 pm 
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No idea Guard wise, they have their own WE's so guard players tend to use them - with marines they are stuck with Warhounds as there only effective armour option. Still i've seen them used well - they should certainly not be allowed commissars!

There are several different wordings of the transport rule now in different marine lists.

My favourite is simply to list next to a formation if it can take drop pods as an upgrade and have it on the upgrades list. best bit is you can then take the scout  suicide drop attack out by simply not giving them that upgrade.

Transports then becomes 'any fomration that can take the razorback upgrade can take enough rhinos etc etc'.

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