Ulrik wrote:
On formations: Would you take a formation of Tacticals and Thunderfire cannons and put them on garrison? Will Scout formations be noticably better with the increased frontage from Land Speeder Storms also having scout? (AFAIK Rhinos need to stick within 5cm of at least one scout unit.)
Yes, I would. Though I’d be more likely to Drop Pod a formation of 4 Thundefires on their own myself. Your second questions is a misconception – Land Speeder Storms in EpicA don’t have Scout (see the Raven Guard list) and I don’t think they should or they’d be OTT.
Aside from less allies one noticeable disadvantage of the proposed new SM list that no-one has explicitly commented on yet would be that it lacks cheap formations with the minimum decent formation costing 200 rather than 150 or 175 and so it would likely have maybe 1 formation less in 1 3,000 list on average. Many Codex Astartes armies take 1-2 Thunderbolts and 1-2 Scout formations, sometimes with a Razorback added so 150-175 points. They also have 175 point Thunderbolts. In the proposed list Scouts would still be possible, but I don’t see that many people paying 150 for 4 Scouts on foot much - without free transports they would be a lot less obviously good. With having to pay 100 extra for Land Speeder Storms they would cost 250, the same as Devestators, but have the advantages of all 2 more units, skimmer and faster moving, covering a larger area with scout and 4+ and 5+ saves rather than 4+ and 6+. Still worth taking and using, but in a different way to now.
I disapprove of the idea of a Dreadnought formation, as they are now is best IMO. The Ironclad Dreadnought (even if it has the worst looking SM model ever) should be included, as its role as a FF/CC Dread is different enough from the others. It should only have 3+ armour like the other Dreads though, unlike OTT stats I saw proposed somewhere or other.
IMO unit’s that definitely should be included are:
Thunderhawk Transporter – they’re roughly as common as Thunderhawk Gunships and used by all chapters.
Thunderfire Cannon – I’d allow them both as upgrades to Tactical and Devestator and as a separate formation of 4 of them. Note Thunderfires can be deployed by Drop Pods or carried by aircraft.
Storm Talons
Assault Terminators – all chapter’s use these or normal Terminators depending on the situation and the marine’s preferences. I feel they justify being in the core list - a stand of Assault Terminators have zero ranged weapons or FF. Yes they are better in CC, but it's more crucially what they
can't do that makes them different. Currently if we use Assault Terminators models having to count them as Terminators it's like we're being asked to use Devestators as Assault Marines (in terms of their offensive capabilities, leaving aside extra speed from jump packs).
Things I’d like to see included, but are less essential:
Storm Eagle
Caestus Assault Ram
Ironclad Dreadnought (with 3+ save as normal, not the OTT stats proposed somewhere)
Land Raider Redeemer or Crusader - personally I'd go with the former if just one, but both could be added, as they're both in the 40k codex now
Things that could possibly be included, but probably best quietly left out or just left for variant lists:
Scout Bikes – they can be counted as normal bikes easily enough, they are armed the same, the only differences would be less armour and scout.
Stern/Van/Honour-Guard
Command Squads
Tech-Marine with Servitors
Venerable Dreadnoughts
Contemptor Dreadnought
Land Speeder Tempest
Tarantula sentry guns
Rapier gun
Spartan
Predator Executioner
Land Raider Archilles, Helios and Prometheus
Damocles
Given that the 6th ed codex is likely to be over a year away I suggest putting this together now. We may add a unit or two more in time, but at least we can test out the other units. If this gets done I’m more keen to playtest this instead of the Codex list.
Rather than banning them entirely could we allow 0-1 Titan (of any kind) in the list? Or include them as normal but at extra cost e.g. 300-325 point Warhounds and no pairs? Personally I don’t mind them not being there at all, but I’m just throwing the ideas out as I know E&C objected to this.
I think the idea of an all in one Codex is good in theory, but bad and too difficult in practice. I reckon this should best just be done for the core list initially (and if people want to base their variant chapter list as a variant of this list rather than the old codex then that’s fine and up to the individual developer).
