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Grey Knights [release 1.3.1 OLD]

 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:39 pm 
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I thought this should be a typical Grey Knight armylist and not a campaign specific one. Then we ned one for Inquisitor Corteaz (big Henchmen formations), one for Crowe (Purifier formations), etc...

BTW: Terminators, Paladins, Interceptors and Strike Teams all are missing Teleport from their notes.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Well, I dunno, I disagree with your point of view there. The core of the army is neither formed around being forced to take loads of purifiers nor forced to take loads of inquisitors, but should you want to go and do that you may, if you want to theme your army this way. If you don't like either of those unit types and don't think they represent your view of a grey knight force, don't take them. Just remember the bit at the front of the book- no grey knights force is made up of an Index Astartes style doctrinated formation of units- They take what the Grandmaster deems necessary for the job.

I see teleport in their notes from the doc I downloaded back from pdfcast- could you please screenshot your page for me if possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Strange. Now if i download it i can open the file. And Teleport is there.

I know the Grey Kmights aren't Codex Astartes style. But the organizational bit says that eaxch Brotherhood (= Company) consists of 3-7 Squads of Terminators, Purgation and Strike Teams is the most efficient deployment.

Why the short Speed on Interceptor Squads? In Wh40k they are as fast as any other Jumppack equipped unit. If using their warp-jump they are actually faster.

And i'm not sure i agree with your differentiation of Terminators from Paladins.
Equipment wise they are the same in Wh40k but Paladins are more resilient due to 2 Wounds per model and the Apothecary. Perhabs their specific psychic power would give them a better FF.

You even could drop them entirely because with the Apothecary and Standard bearerer they look more likle a Command Squad than waranting stats of their own.

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Last edited by BlackLegion on Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:08 pm 
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Looks like a good start. It's a "full featured" list.

Now cut the number of unit types by 1/3rd. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Fortitude/ Warp Quake: Are these really needed?

Too many similar infantry types, you need to consolidate some of them. Paladins for example are just slightly better terminators and should be consolidated with them. Purifier and Purgation squads are both devastator analogues, keep one and lose the other. Opponents will struggle to tell the difference between all these unit types on the tabletop.

Arvus, Aquilla, Storm Raven, Thunderhawk, Thunderhawk Transporter: Are 5 planetfalling deep-insertion vehicles really necessary? Aquilla and Arvus are almost identical, lose one of them at least, and honestly they could both be "counts as" Storm Ravens.


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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Well Purifiers have white helmets while Purgation Squads have not :D
A Purgation Squad unit with a Librarian would be a good representation of a Purifier Squad and would also represent their rarity.
As Grey Knight Librarians in your list have First Strike this fits very well.

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Last edited by BlackLegion on Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Aquilla and Arvus are almost identical, lose one of them at least, and honestly they could both be "counts as" Storm Ravens.

That is a thought, I could see the Inquisition using Storm Ravens.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:41 pm 
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They *could use stormvravens- but that is shoving 200 point muppets in 300 point transports. Maybe it would work, but its pretty bad value formation. The planetfalling muppets in flying coffins however played quite well in their couple of test games, and it is worth taking the transport upgrade for the points just to make them mobile, even though it does very little to their combat capability.
On planetfall vehicles- if tests show its rorty cuts can be made, but the knights do not have drop pods, yet are extremely mobile. I played an army with 2 inquisitorial landing parties, a thunderhawk gunship, two transporters ans a stormraven flight vs orks. It was a lot of fun to play, and each of the flyer/skimmer formations worked.and felt different. Nothing appeared to be rorty about it, due to the testing of those units, the amount of combat boots on the ground was reduced by a lot so you had to be even more surgical.


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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Oh, and why use the Turbolaser Thunderhawk? Its inclusions feels gratuitous.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Turbolaser thunderhawk is in to promote a use in ranged tankbusting when not transporting. There are a ton of other close ranged ap options for knights, but they dont have access to a lot of long ranged anti tank options. Same reason for using the destroyer variant of the marauder, to make them a useful ranged AT entry to balance your forces.


Last edited by fattdex on Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Lists tend to be more characterful if they have some weaknesses...

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Well it's a Space Marine list and as every Space Marine list it has problems dealing with War Engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:19 pm 
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5 deep insertion vehicles is excessive. At minimum lose either the Arvus or Aquilla; they're almost identical.


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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:10 am 
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zombocom wrote:
Fortitude/ Warp Quake: Are these really needed?

Correct. At a minimum I believe Fortitude should go

Quote:
Too many similar infantry types, you need to consolidate some of them.

This has been my view from day 1.

Quote:
Purifier and Purgation squads

Agree.

Quote:
Paladins for example are just slightly better terminators

Maybe used as an upgrade to a teminator formation? Add (or replcace units) 1-2 Paladin units for x points

Quote:
Arvus, Aquilla, Storm Raven, Thunderhawk, Thunderhawk Transporter: Are 5 planetfalling deep-insertion vehicles really necessary?

No.


fattdex wrote:
I'm unapologetic about the fact that the Inquisitorial units are 1) in the list to be used as either cheap units or cannon fodder- they are a counter weight to the more expensive Grey Knights troops by design, in this army list

I have a real issue with this. If they are not in there for the fluff, then they should go. To have them in there purely as an activation count is a bad move. Just because other major lists seems to do it should not mean that it is the norm. There will be other ways to gain activations (aircraft being one). For me, "fluff is king" in this respect.

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 Post subject: Re: Grey Knights [release 1.0.0]
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:16 am 
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Dreadknights

Are these bought as a formation? Seems strange as do they not fill the same role as a Dreadnought?

I am unsure as to the latest incarnation of the Grey Knights, however I thought these could be represented as an upgrade rather than a formation.

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