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LR Crusader
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Could you mark the times the MM could have been direct fired in the game as well?

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zombocom
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:04 pm 
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In a Black Templar list I can't imagine many times it would be firing on anything other than a double order, and a MW6+ is not a big deal. The MW FF is more of an issue than the ranged shot to me.

Not to mention that losing the ranged shot but not the MW FF is weapon-inconsistency; multi-meltas give both in epic.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 04 Jun. 2009, 16:36 )

Just because it is an option or an upgrade doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Furthermore, it is the "standard" option for Crusaders, always has been. Just because it has become optional in the very latest codex for the first time since it was made doesn't mean that the multi-melta isn't traditionally a part of the crusader.

The point is that it no longer is, and... shrug... I won't say any more.  :shutup:  :shutup:  :shutup:

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vytzka
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 05 Jun. 2009, 00:04 )

Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 04 Jun. 2009, 16:36 )

Just because it is an option or an upgrade doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Furthermore, it is the "standard" option for Crusaders, always has been. Just because it has become optional in the very latest codex for the first time since it was made doesn't mean that the multi-melta isn't traditionally a part of the crusader.

The point is that it no longer is, and... shrug... I won't say any more.  :shutup:  :shutup:  :shutup:

You know, I'm starting to develop a theory here...
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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 04 Jun. 2009, 17:04 )

The point is that it no longer is, and... shrug... I won't say any more.  :shutup:  :shutup:  :shutup:

The point is that Crusaders can still have multi-meltas in 40K and there's nothing wrong with the Epic version having multi-meltas from a rules-translation perspective. Not that 40K rules translation should be the be-all-and-end-all of the Epic stats either!

Consider that Leman Russ can have multi-melta sponsons now and Demolishers can have heavy bolters. Both are optional upgrades. Should we change the Epic stats? Yet traditionally, the Russ has heavy bolter sponsons and the Demolisher has multi-meltas. The Epic stats reflect the most common configuration. The same applies to the Crusader.

It is possible to get away with modfying the stats in light of the 40K changes, but still, the Crusader is the Leman Russ variant traditionally associated with the multi-melta.
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zombocom
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:51 pm 
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For me, removing the MM is about balance, and the 40k change gives us licence to do so. I wouldn't remove it because of the 40k change, but because it's overpowered.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Quote: (vytzka @ 04 Jun. 2009, 22:34 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 05 Jun. 2009, 00:04 )

Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 04 Jun. 2009, 16:36 )

Just because it is an option or an upgrade doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Furthermore, it is the "standard" option for Crusaders, always has been. Just because it has become optional in the very latest codex for the first time since it was made doesn't mean that the multi-melta isn't traditionally a part of the crusader.

The point is that it no longer is, and... shrug... I won't say any more.  :shutup:  :shutup:  :shutup:

You know, I'm starting to develop a theory here...

I'm willing to bet your theory is wrong.  :cool:  :rock:  :vD

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 04 Jun. 2009, 22:51 )

For me, removing the MM is about balance, and the 40k change gives us licence to do so. I wouldn't remove it because of the 40k change, but because it's overpowered.

Indeed.

It's a fortuitous change in Warhammer 40,000 that just so happens to work well with our issues in Epic.

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Onyx
 Post subject: LR Crusader
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:55 am 
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Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 05 Jun. 2009, 05:44 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 04 Jun. 2009, 17:04 )

The point is that it no longer is, and... shrug... I won't say any more.  :shutup:  :shutup:  :shutup:

The point is that Crusaders can still have multi-meltas in 40K and there's nothing wrong with the Epic version having multi-meltas from a rules-translation perspective. Not that 40K rules translation should be the be-all-and-end-all of the Epic stats either!

Consider that Leman Russ can have multi-melta sponsons now and Demolishers can have heavy bolters. Both are optional upgrades. Should we change the Epic stats? Yet traditionally, the Russ has heavy bolter sponsons and the Demolisher has multi-meltas. The Epic stats reflect the most common configuration. The same applies to the Crusader.

It is possible to get away with modfying the stats in light of the 40K changes, but still, the Crusader is the Leman Russ variant traditionally associated with the multi-melta.

Agreed.

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