I rather think that Apoc tries to use formations which are based on fluff.
Remember that real battles aren't balanced. If a force has a superior unit composition it will use it until it will find something better.

Im Epic this just means that such a formation must be pointed appropiately to maintain a balanced game.

So i have no problem in incorporation Apoc units/formations as long as the points cost makes them balanced for a game of Epic.

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Not sure where people are on this, but I like this BA list, particularly agree with nealhunt's following suggestion;
If that's going to be the way it's run, I suggest the following:

Assault - 4 units - All the codex options, plus Assault, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support (maybe even Hunter?) - 175
Tacs - cut the Fast Attack (you'll want to force them to take Assault Marines rather than bikes or speeders); maybe cut the Heavy support, though you'll probably want to keep slots for Baal Preds open.

Upgrades:
Assault [replaces current "Assault" upgrade] - Add 2 assault marine units - +75 points

That could give 6-unit Assault forces for 250, with the option to add all sorts of support - bikes to round out 8 Thawk-able units (still 350 points - same as 2 assault formations), Speeders for additional FF/BM placement, etc..  The assault formation becomes extremely flexible as to composition, allowing it to move into a general-purpose role.

Exactly. I'd also like to point out that the Codex Astartes details not only chapter organization, but strategy as well. That said, I find it hard to see why the Blood Angels would require anything different from the main marine list apart from maybe the death company. True, their veterans are differently equipped, but regular veterans are simply treated as tactical marines for epic purposes, too. Just paint some assault squads differently.

But to comment on the list itself (without getting into whether it's an appropriate representation of the Blood Angels), two things pop out for me. Firstly, how about letting scouts retain the rhino option if they choose? Especially if this is planned for the normal marine list too, it'd provide a choice for those who already have painted rhinos for their scouts and don't feel like buying land speeders to replace them and for those who think using a light skimmer to transport a heavily armoured and equipped squad of Rambos is a bit silly.

And the death company. So um, it's mandatory, it costs nearly as much as a terminator squad, it dies fairly easily and it has to go firefight that warlord if there's nothing else in range. Also, they can't use certain actions and have a nonsensical* special rule.

Personally, I'd remove the invulnerable save and boost their regular save to 3+ to represent they can take lots of regular fire but die as easily as regular marines to really heavy firepower, toss the outnumbering special rule and the mandatory inclusion and cheapen them a bit. Probably make the squad size fixed or 4-8 instead of the points based one. Then add in that the squad will behave normally (as in no forced engages and letting them sustain/marshal as normal) as long as the chaplain is around, since fluffwise he controls them and the squad goes berserk without him.

*What on earth does the outnumbering special rule represent, anyway? Even if they don't care about overwhelming odds, they can still be shot in the back or swarmed in close combat. Which is apparently true, since the enemy still gets the 2x outnumber bonus. Fearless is fine to represent their, well, fearlessness, even berserkers don't get any extra special rules. Thinking about the rule itself, the only formation I'd ever imagine having a rule like that would be pink horrors. Would represent them splitting into two blue ones when killed, negating the enemy's outnumber bonus. However, if there were twice as many enemies, their number would eventually outweigh even the splitting advantage. Not that this has anything to do with Blood Angels, of course.  

"Codex strategy" really doesn't mean much.  According to the fluff it contains techniques that cover pretty much every possible military strategic variation.

Variant lists for "Codex" chapters don't mean they are divergent.  The concept is just that that SM chapters have preferred fighting styles and have become more proficient in a particular aspect of the Codex.  BAs have all the normal gear and  use all the normal SM strategies as well when it's appropriate, so you can run a battle using the Codex list.  However, if given their choice they opt for certain strategies and force orgs.  The BA list represents an army using those BA preferences.  It's not supposed to be the only way they ever fight.

I agree on the DC rules.  I've never liked them.  I just made my peace with them because no better options have been presented (certainly not by me).

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Sorry couldn't resist the silly title.

Anyway.

Do bloody angles still have hyperthrust on their rhinos like streethawk?

If so how’s about a fluffy special rule with something along the lines of a blood angel formation may roll a d6 before moving. On a 2+ all the formations rhinos may move an additional 5cm, if a 1 is rolled they may not move as they carry out repairs on the over stressed engines (and no doubt complain about trying to source these Detroit parts).

I would make the death company 0-1 as well. Otherwise the chapter would run out of marines at around tea time. is it not possible to have it as a 4+ unit formation as well? Otherwise the size is just odd in a 2000 point game.

The bike formation seems very expensive (300 for 5? Should the upgrade cost be 5 points perhaps?).

I would ditch the Land Raider variants, these guys get fast rhinos and jet packs instead! And the redeemer should be inflicted on the poor old salamanders only

Maybe move scouts to the 1/3 if they are rare?

Whirlwinds rather than restriction could go in the 1/3 as well? Otherwise though why bother, who is going to take more than 30% of the army as whirlwinds!

I would rename Heavy Support as 'Assault armour' for style reasons.
Points wise the crusader seems to win the battle every time compared to the other two raiders.

The 200 point typhoon option pretty much replaces the pred destructor formation.

Vindy formation shouldn't be dropped, it is pretty much an assault tank formation!

With so few options to add them you might need to up the hunter upgrade to 1-2 hunters.

I would leave rhinos in as a scout option, unless you plan on casting and distributing this new 'speeder

Heavy flamers don't give +1EA.

Multi melta also don't have +1EA (and it has two sets of hurricane bolters, I've seen a comment by someone saying this stat line is confusing, really it is no more confusing than 2 x power fists in my opinion).

I think the redeemer having the same FF as a baneblade is a bit off. Drop the EA's and give it a base FF of 2+? (and IC)



Ultimately I think my army would still be built around 4 tac/2 assault + 1 fury/2 bikes thunderhawk assault formations, with terminators for flavour and warhounds for AA suppression.

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Yes.

If so how’s about a fluffy special rule with something along the lines of a blood angel formation may roll a d6 before moving. On a 2+ all the formations rhinos may move an additional 5cm, if a 1 is rolled they may not move as they carry out repairs on the over stressed engines (and no doubt complain about trying to source these Detroit parts).

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Yes, I'm sure at least one or two scouts could crawl inside the back part of the speeder. -If- they remove the engine to make space.  

Too simple.

Or two shots on 3's.

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Note that the datafax in the Pulsars list is different. That is same as is used elsewhere nowdays and it doesn't have +1EA on Multimelta.

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Ah I see, the stats are the same but the place of the Multi-Melta's shot has moved to the base FF value.

I can swap that over, no problem.

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Army list updated to V2.02 to reflect some of the comments in this thread, especially some of Neal's cool ideas.

Blood Angels 2.02

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Good work but:

The wording of the Heavy Support upgrades allows to put 4 extra vehicles to the formation. Intentional?

The Land Raider upgrade doesn't allow mixed Land Raider types. Intentional?

The Scout Land Speeder is called Land Speeder Storm not Shadow.

The flamers on the Land Raider Redeemer are called Flamestorm Cannons not Redeemer Flamers.

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Intentional.

The Land Raider upgrade doesn't allow mixed Land Raider types. Intentional?

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