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Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Why would 50pts be too cheap?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:14 pm 
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The general argument has been that comparing them to Hydras their firepower on a double is pretty comparable against vehicles (1x 5+ instead of 2x 6+) plus they have longer range, same save and FF. The trade-off is they have no AP capacity and worse AA capacity (1x 4+ instead of 2x 5+). But the argument always goes 'But they have ATSKNF! SO they're harder to suppress!' which would be true except that you can put Hydras in formations with 75cm main guns which can be suppressed instead of the hydra if you want to! With a 60cm main gun compared to 45 cm on the other stuff it's fairly easy to have aircraft avoid getting close enough to the rest of the formation, in my experience.

I've, twice now I think, suggested changing them to 50 points each. That'd make them pretty competetive with Thunderbolts in a list, but as things stand I'd rather have 2 Thunderbolts then 2 Hunters, really. Better AA (4x 4+ compared to 2x 4+) can hit anywhere on the board potentially, don't have to worry about dieing to anything but AA shots, and VASTLY better capacity against ground targets (2x AP 4+, 2x AT 4+, 2x AP 5+/AT 6+, compared to 1x AT 4+!) Half the survivability on being hit, but with much fewer weapons able to hit them I'd much rather have them then Hunters. As things stand I doubt I'll field hunters again any time soon.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:24 pm 
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(Hena @ Dec. 10 2007,19:21)
QUOTE
As it gives that 60cm AA shot. I would start putting them everywhere for it.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

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Chroma
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:30 pm 
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(Hena @ Dec. 10 2007,19:33)
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Too cheap AA tank is a bad thing ... :)

But three cheap AA tanks... and it's the Imperial Guard!   :;):

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Markconz
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:27 am 
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(Hena @ Dec. 10 2007,17:35)
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I've downgraded the aircrafts from original version (SB lost 1BP and both gained 25 points in cost). I hope tha they are balanced like this. Balance comes as they require to be within 15cm for full power :). They are nasty though those Thunderhawks.

As for Hunters. I can't drop the cost to 50 as that would be too cheap and nor can I change the stats. But it does feel a tad expensive. However there is no good solutions to it. Perhaps predators with extra units 275 + 125 +75 = 475. That would be 6 Annihilators and Hunter. Tad expensive but should do wonders against AT targets. Usually I field 4 Annihilators and Hunter (350) as that packs nice punch for the cost (5*AT4+, 8*AT5+).

I've just made one of the AT T-Hawks ones by sticking some rockets on, but the SB version doesn't really appeal with only 2BP.... I'm surprised the reduction to 2BP from 3BP was necessary.

Agreed 50 for Hunters would be too cheap, better 75 and rarer I think.  AA4+ and AT4+ at 60cm with ATSKNF is still pretty good.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:37 am 
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I don't think 2 BP is too bad, to be honest. Considering that it ALSO gets 5 other AP 4+ shots as well, the 2 BP is really just icing. And at 225 it's not very expensive considering what heinous things it does to infantry (I had one of these things nearly wipe out an entire guardian detachment in the woods in a single action). 3 BP might be  more fitting, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with saying it was necessary to be honest.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:58 am 
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(Hena @ Dec. 11 2007,06:13)
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Might consider making it 250 as well with IC

:O

That would be pretty powerful for the points I think  :)

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:49 pm 
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I think it is boring that you have to take thunderbolts when playing with marines because Huntard is just so expensive. I would go for 50 points for Huntard and no option to Thunderbolt, but that is just me. Heavy use of non-expensive Huntards would even be fluffy! :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.2gw/epic/Scions_of_Iron_v1.2.pdf
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:30 pm 
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I'm not sure the Hunter is as bad as people are saying. For instance in comparison with thunderbolts, 2 hunters can shoot multiple times in a turn easily enough, and  60cm covers a lot of ground. The thunderbolts get a single more powerful attack at either ground or AA targets but not both, and have to get within 15cm to make full use of the AA, and have to activate to do it at lower Initiative.

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