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Imperial Fists Development
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Let's say you change the "Fortified Positions" list choice to something like :

Quote:
Fortified Position - 50cm of minefields, and 1 bastion - 50 points


Minefields would be like razorwire but count as dangerous for vehicles too, and a bastion would be a Fortification that grants a 3+ cover save to infantry and holds 8 units.

With that in the list, infantry would be highly desirable.

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Athmospheric
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:19 pm 
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I would have no philosophical opposition to veterans in a list if they were just a name and used the same stat line as standard marines (be they Assault or Tac marines, at that).

A special rule for garrisoning with an "additional vehicle" really look like a unwarranted special rule tho, and anyway there is no mention of vehicle in the garrison rules so it need to be reworded at the very least.
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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Minefields would be like razorwire but count as dangerous for vehicles too, and a bastion would be a Fortification that grants a 3+ cover save to infantry and holds 8 units.


Well as long as the 'bastion' does not interfere with the Imperial Bastian in the NetEA Imp Guard doc, I guess I do not have an issue with the above.

I was considering 50 point fortifications that did not include Bunkers and then offering 3x Bunkers for +50 points so I am quite alright with E&Cs idea as well.

So I guess with the above idea, would you say it replaces the need for trenchworks? I was having this discussion with Morgan as well this morning and his belief was that Marines would not use them as Imp Guard would. It would seem that his idea would have some support in this respect?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Quote:
So I guess with the above idea, would you say it replaces the need for trenchworks?


Yes. I agree with Morgan there, and I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread too, Marines wouldn't be holding long stretches of trenchline, instead they would use bastions to control areas.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Athmospheric wrote:
A special rule for garrisoning with an "additional vehicle" really look like a unwarranted special rule tho, and anyway there is no mention of vehicle in the garrison rules so it need to be reworded at the very least.


Ah. It would then be reworded to a 2nd unit with MV over 15cm :)

Either way, I guess the idea is quashed for the time being. :P

It was to be representative of an army that could make use of garrisoning exceptionally well without 'breaking' the rules. It was a small buff, yet not anything I thought people would cry "foul!" at.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:41 pm 
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So, looking at the Bastion and the Firebase, would it not be better for the Fortifications idea by E&C (holding 8 stands), to be represented as a Firebase rather than a Bastion?

Note: Once again, another one of Morgan's ideas. ::)

Bastion
Image


Firebase
Image

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Ahhh, the old Firebase Terrain....That is slightly bigger than the Bastion.

Bastion DC3 Transport 6

Firebase DC5 or 6 Transport 10 or 12?
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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:51 pm 
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AoC. The idea (or as I believe) is to have it as terrain rather than a formation/War Engine.

So no stats other than what it can hold - hence why it is only worth 50 points.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:55 pm 
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If you want a list focused on infantry it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have the "fortifications" as War Engines. So yeah, Firebase is fine by me.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:56 pm 
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How about allowing Tacticals to take Assaults and/or Devastators as ugrades? Or Devastators to take Assaults/Tacticals as upgrades? Or Assaults totake Devastators and/or Tacticals as upgrades?
Would focus more of the utility of Infantry.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:44 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
How about allowing Tacticals to take Assaults and/or Devastators as ugrades? Or Devastators to take Assaults/Tacticals as upgrades? Or Assaults totake Devastators and/or Tacticals as upgrades?
Would focus more of the utility of Infantry.


that was one of the options for the Veterens idea where they could swap out 2 units for Devs.

Problem as I gather, is that it then ceases to become codex?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Focus on the nessesary stuff for the theme, not the wacky stuff that's in there just to be fun, IMO.

Hit the core theme. Siege warfare.

Looking forwards to the next list update.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists Development
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:05 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Looking forwards to the next list update.


Yes. I believe 16 pages has gone far enough for this version. I am going to lock this now and post up the next revision under another thread

Thank you all for your invaluable feedback to take the list up to the next revision

Cheers... Frogbear

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